Notice the games that are being played and how the conversation is being manipulated. This is good stuff- thanks to the Anon Dougy.
Got to get used to it…, January 31, 2013
By
Douglas “College English professor who loves classic literature, psychology, neurology and hates pop trash like Twilight and Fifty Shades of Grey.”
This review is from: Rabbit Hole: A Satanic Ritual Abuse Survivor’s Story (Kindle Edition)
if you are going to buy self-published books on Amazon, there is a good chance that you are going to get bad writing and a cock-eyed story. That is exactly what you get here.
Initial post: Jan 31, 2013 4:06:52 PM PST
Douglas says:
Any personal attacks that are leveled at me by the “author” or anyone else because of this honest assessment will be reported immediately to Amazon.
Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Jan 31, 2013 5:16:50 PM PST
Last edited by you 20 hours ago
David Shurter says:
I’d rather deal with you on my blog at DavidShurter.com . There are MAJOR issues between this poster and I – and he is doing his best to harass and intimidate me- now with my own book. Douglas Mesner/Misicko never read this book- and actually- this review NEEDS to be reported. If this isn’t Mesner- he is someone heavily connected with the False Memory Foundation.
but just so people can see what kind of organization Douglas supports- here are a few facts about the False Memory society…
Look Below on my blog for this Info
Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Jan 31, 2013 5:29:27 PM PST
Last edited by you 20 hours ago
David Shurter says:
New Post on DavidShurter.com
New Review of My Book By Douglas Mesner-
I have just gotten attacked by Doug Mesner on my book today- and I thought I would ask people to go to my book at
and feel free to comment on the review- or to Doug himself. I reported this offense to Amazon- but Mesner has cohorts on the web who are seeking to trash anyone who is trying to expose our abuse in the past. Here is the review- what he wrote- and what I responded…
Posted on Jan 31, 2013 5:57:33 PM PST
Judy Byington says:
In the first place, Douglas Misicko, you are NOT a college professor, but use aliases of CritThink/ Karmakazi/ AC2012/ Lucien Graves or Doug Mesner to call yourself Overlord of the Satanic Temple, a DJ on Radio Free Satan, plus are connected to the grandfather of Satanism Alister Crowley 2012 website, who openly brags about trying to cancel signings on my book “Twenty-Two Faces.” What is your purpose in trying to supress books like Rabbit Hole that exposes the abuse of children?
Posted on Jan 31, 2013 6:20:31 PM PST
Bryan Graczyk says:
Douglas, your rude comment is not is the spirit of a constructive criticism, but is little more than a condescending smear. I’m disappointed to see a self proclaimed “college professor” showing such tactlessness, insensitivity, and immaturity.
David Shurter’s writing, advocacy and support are helping people around the world who can corroborate these accounts of a type of abuse that is difficult to imagine, much less recover from.
Doug, if you do not agree with David’s work, I suggest you use your own gifts to develop a meaningful contribution to what you care about, instead of trying to tear others down. You only discredit yourself if you have nothing better to say.
In reply to an earlier post on Jan 31, 2013 6:28:18 PM PST
Sky Lover says:
Have you even read this book? Since you aren’t David Shurter, I’d love to see you bring forth evidence that his life did not happen!! Unless you can do that, you have no business discrediting his story. And unless you’ve read this book, you have no business writing a review about it. Please go back to your fmsf playground, where everyone will bow down to your lies and crown you king of the hill.
Posted on Jan 31, 2013 7:13:32 PM PST
His Sister says:
Your post reflects more of a personal attack more than anything else. If you are an English professor, than perhaps your “college” should reconsider their hiring choices. Your commentary is filled with spelling and grammatical errors.
As to the content, your commentary is all an Ad hominem fallacy. Really? Can’t you pick out individual arguments and offer your position? Why take this stance? Why the personal attacks?
For the record, I am David’s sister. I lived through much of what he described (insofar as the ritual abuse is described). Our experiences aren’t solitary experiences. There are many people here who have similar stories. In fact, much of this is common knowledge in Omaha. Perhaps, you might widen your area of research in to the topic.
I would also comment that David’s story in anecdotal. You cannot invalidate a person’s individual experience. This isn’t a research study. It’s his personal story, and thus, this book is David’s view of what happened from his point of view. Certainly, you have the right to make any assertions you would like, but take in to account that his book is not a documentary or a published journal article. Yes, David’s perceptions are rife throughout the book. That’s how anecdotal records work.
So, exactly what is your axe to grind????
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Douglas says:
I don’t know this Mischko or Mesner. And boy, you all seemed to take this VERY personally! I won’t even respond to these nonsensical rantings. I just genuinely thought the book was really bad. The first thing a writer is taught is “just because it is true doesn’t mean it’s good.” It certainly did not come off like a true story, but if on some planet it really is, it is not well related in this book. Why don’t you all go rag on the person who called this “rambling verbal vomit?” Sister… WOW!…this is from a definition of “anecdotal” from a dictionary: “…Anecdotal evidence is considered dubious support of a claim…” So, I guess we agree…the tale doesn’t come off as real…you practically say the story took place in David’s head… Either it really happened or didn’t. You CAN invalidate someone’s personal story if it didn’t happen or does not coincide with reality… This rambling thing does not seem to coincide with reality…Maybe it is reality just very poorly and distortedly related…
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David Shurter says:
The Attacks on Amazon Ensue
Look Below on my blog for this entry…
In reply to an earlier post on Feb 1, 2013 5:38:43 AM PST
Bryan Graczyk says:
Douglas, enough with the semantics. In a medical context, first-person (“anecdotal”) accounts can be considered suspect, because they may represent cherry-picking or not be representative.
From your quote source earlier (Wikipedia): ‘Although such evidence is not seen as conclusive, it is sometimes regarded as an invitation to more rigorous scientific study of the phenomenon in question.[13] For instance, one study found that 35 of 47 anecdotal reports of side effects were later sustained as “clearly correct.” ‘
If an account is anecdotal, the conclusion to take from it is that it more investigation needs to be done. It is not appropriate to simply decide right off the bat that the claim is bunk and pitch it. Wikipedia also notes that ‘the case report or statistical outlier cannot be dismissed as having no weight’. Just because David’s personal account is unusual and relatively rare, compared to the whole population (but is supported by thousands of independent accounts), does not make it false.
The irony is that you are making an argument based on your own personal experience, your anecdotal *perception* about what “does not coincide with reality”. Except that you’ve shown that you deliberately keep yourself in the dark about certain realities, refusing to weigh the evidence in an objective manner, so your opinion is uninformed and meaningless.
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Douglas says:
So anyone who doesn’t like these poorly written self-published books is a Satanist? And Bryan, if you are claiming a story involving real people is true, and the people are said to be involved in everything from Satanism to murder, you don’t want to be “anecdotal.” You better have evidence to back it up. According to DS’s own account, not even the police buy this story. That is the very problem with these books, all the way back to Sybil…they are fictionalized reality, if there is any reality to them at all…anecdotal. You would not want to be on the bad end of an anecdotal story, now would you? The fact that the author has slandered me all over the internet…actually slandered someone else he CLAIMS is me does not speak well for his credibility. He claims I am Mesner, “a boy,” and yet, a bit of fact checking would show that my account here is a dozen or more years old. Are his claims about who I am “anecdotal”?
Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Feb 1, 2013 10:20:15 AM PST
David Shurter says:
Douglas- you are an anon- In here and probably every where else. You speak about things you have no clue about as if you are an authority- when you are no such thing. Good try at your woo woo tactics- but many are seeing through it.
In reply to your post on Feb 1, 2013 10:25:29 AM PST
Last edited by the author 3 hours ago
Douglas says:
That doesn’t address the issues I raised. This seems to be the way you deal with reality, in the book and outside of it. Simply dismiss what you don’t want to see and make up the rest. If you are going to accuse people of murder, kidnapping and Satanic abuse, you had damn well better be able to do better than “anecdotal.” You accuse Mesner of being a Satanist BECAUSE HE VAGUELY LOOKS LIKE A PICTURE OF A SATANIST!…holy God, man! You are going to really get in some legal trouble some day with your “anecdotal”!……….. And seriously, I would have never even heard of “RH” or “22F” if you hadn’t come after me on another thread…claiming I was Mesner…more of your “anecdotal.”
Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Feb 1, 2013 10:52:55 AM PST
David Shurter says:
Still- there is more than even what is in the book. I am not going to argue your woo woo tactics- the fact remains no one knows who you are. And saying your not Doug or related to Doug in some fashion is basically to defy reasoning- esp. Considering your temperament throughout our conversations. Oh- and just so we are clear- there is NO DOUG MESNER- he is but another alias again.
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Douglas says:
Now Mesner doesn’t exist…o, boy… If he does exist, he could certainly sue you for what you have said about him in multiple public places… Your shotgun accusations of Satanism and pedophilia are going to get you into serious legal trouble at some point… Arguing about bad books is one thing…what you do is quite another… Judy Byington…you too… I could sue you for what you say above… You people are totally irresponsible in your personal attacks, saying that people are Satanists and pedophiles because they don’t like a book or argue with you…good way to end up with a liable/slander suit.
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Douglas says:
Shurter and Byington have both been reported for slander. Expect a mass removal of comments in a couple of days and maybe even a banning for repeated abuse. You want to argue about bad books, ok. You want to call people Satanists and pedophiles, expect consequences. And having your comments removed or getting banned will be light compared with the lawsuit someone will level against you one of these days. I hope Mesner does just that for your wild claims about him…
I am going to let Amazon handle this and go back to reviewing books. If you all want to follow me around every time I review a book, we can keep doing this. I would rather not.
In reply to an earlier post on Feb 1, 2013 12:41:53 PM PST
Bryan Graczyk says:
Somebody call the WAAAAH-mbulance for Doug!
You’re the one who came here, buddy. And it’s clear you’ve come to do nothing but pick a fight. If you want to clear the names of the accused, then call for a fair investigation… instead of trying to isolate and shout down individuals like David Shurter and Judy Byington.
A member of the British Parliament, Tom Watson, recently spoke out about “a widespread paedophile ring” that resembles the situation from David’s book:
“The leads were not followed up, but if the files still exist, I want to ensure that the Metropolitan Police secure the evidence, re-examine it, and investigate clear intelligence suggesting a powerful paedophile network linked to Parliament and No10.”
“The central allegation was that a large body of material seized in the raid on his home had not been fully investigated… Many sickening crimes will remain uninvestigated, and some of the most despicable paedophiles will remain protected by the Establishment that has shielded them for 30 years…”
There has also been a recent scandal where over a thousand alleged users of child pornography in the Pentagon went totally uninvestigated.
Last edited by the author 1 hour ago
Douglas says:
I merely reviewed a bad book…You all have been the ones to attack personally. Bryan…expect your comments to be removed for personal attack as well… Do not talk “fair” to me when someone is accused of being a Satanist and pedophile for negatively reviewing a bad book that wildly accuses with no demonstrated fact… Those are Hitler tactics… I also issue a call to many others who have been called Satanists and pedophiles because they dared to negatively review these “pseudo-psych” potboilers that now float off of every vanity press to issue a complaint to Amazon. We can argue bad books, but personal accusations have to stop, and only complaining of it will get it done.
And that’s great that Parliament caught bad people. But it does not make DS’s book any better. You mistake theme for good or plausible writing. It is not the same. And you mistake criticisms of bad writing for attacks on the public good. It is a ludicrous connection.
Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Feb 1, 2013 12:52:41 PM PST
David Shurter says:
You would know Douglas- and besides- all the comments will be saved on my blog for posterity. So people will still be able to see what you have been saying. Even the title of your review was an attack- so before you go claiming to be this victim- realize that there are others who can argue just as effectively as you. And again- why are you able to spend all day at the computer typing insulting replies?
In reply to your post on Feb 1, 2013 1:15:23 PM PST
Last edited by the author 1 hour ago
Douglas says:
If I ever suffer even slightly for your (probably unread) blog, or anything else connected with you, Shutner…expect whatever legal rebuttal appropriate…I have put in for your banning from Amazon for your wild and vicious accusations of Satanism and pedophilia toward those who do not like what you like… I hope Amazon has the wisdom to make a clear demonstration that such things will not be tolerated.
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David Shurter says:
I won’t hold my breathe. More and more threats. Yet you are the one who is attacking everyone, but wants to play the victim. I have Amazon online right now myself.
Last edited by the author 52 minutes ago
Douglas says:
Make sure they have a good look at what you and Byington do. Please do direct them to all these threads so they can have a good look. Do make sure to mention that I have had to complain of this twice and that masses of your slander were removed the first time
Last edited by you 50 minutes ago
David Shurter says:
They are just explaining to me what your game is. Plus- may I remind you that you are an anon? How exactly can you be hurt by anything when no one knows who you are?
Last edited by the author 37 minutes ago
Douglas says:
You feel free to slander anyone who can’t sue you? Well, Mesner can, and I hope he does. And perhaps Amazon will see it otherwise as well. Perhaps they won’t find your “no one knows who you are” accusations of Satanism and pedophilia so innocuous.
Last edited by you 24 minutes ago
David Shurter says:
Please- I haven’t slandered anyone. Least of all you. You do it to yourself. All of you do. You fight for adults who have been called out for pedophilia- you are NOT for children. And Doug Misicko hosted a Satanic rally for Rick Scott down in Tallahassee Florida so if he doesn’t want to be called a satanist- he shouldn’t have thrown a rally for them.
Last edited by the author 20 minutes ago
Douglas says:
You have many times called Mesner Misicko (with your paranoid picture comparison) and me Mesner–openly calling both Mesner and me a Satanist/pedophile… For that, you are legally responsible. You too, Byington. I call on the Amazon team to take special note of this.
Last edited by you 18 minutes ago
David Shurter says:
Then go for it Dougy- but chances are- you are just full of threats. And if the shoe fits buddy…
You just don’t like exposure. Obviously- since your making threats as an anon….
Oh- and for those who are interested- here are the pics Dougy is talking about…
Leader of the False Memory Pedophile Protector Squad- alias Doug Mesner
In reply to your post on Feb 1, 2013 2:07:51 PM PST
Last edited by the author 17 minutes ago
Douglas says:
Mesner is the one with the strong legal case. Perhaps you two will hear from his council. I do not plan to sue anyone at this point. I AM pushing for Amazon to put an end to this Satanist/pedophilia accusation thing in a strong way with regard to you and Bylington.
Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Feb 1, 2013 2:09:35 PM PST
David Shurter says:
Me too Douglas- BIG TIME! I have no clue who you are- but the things I have said about Mesner/misicko stand on my blog.
You are just full of threats. But chances are- you are HEAVILY involved with this in more ways than just in here.
In reply to your post on Feb 1, 2013 2:12:21 PM PST
Last edited by the author 14 minutes ago
Douglas says:
What is “this”? Satanism? Pedophilia? Be specific. The only thing I seek is a forum in which people can argue about the merits of good or bad books without personal acccusations.
Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Feb 1, 2013 2:13:32 PM PST
David Shurter says:
In my opinion- take your pick. But that is just my opinion.
Last edited by the author 12 minutes ago
Douglas says:
Well, we will see how much of your “opinion” remains here in the next 48 hours. I am not going to indulge you any more.
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David Shurter says:
Whatever sweetie. You do what you gotta do- and we will see what happens. But you attacked and have attacked over and over- so better pry yourself down off that cross buddy.