Conversations Between Doug Mesner/miSICKO and I Concerning his Castlewood Piece

This was the post that I put on his article about Castlewood…

There is absolutely no way to separate satanic ritual abuse from MKUltra and our governments practice of mind control techniques, which is more on target than equating it with aliens from outer space- which is what the False Memory Foundation likes to do, when they aren’t publicly endorsing Mesner. Col. Michael Aquino- founder of the satanic sect Temple of Set, and highly involved with allegations of abuse concerning the time that the False Memory foundation refers to as “satanic panic”- which NO sociologist really uses because it isn’t a real term, regularly uses the allegations that people are accusing him of alien abduction rather than serious crimes against children, in order to deflect the conversation into unreal territory- rather than staying with the facts of the matter. Like the whole alien thing is from E. Loftus- who’s theories have been disproved over and over in test after test. Also an advocate for the False Memory Foundation- this is an organization that was designed by a couple accused of pedophilia to protect others who have been accused of pedophilia by discrediting and attacking any victim who would come forward and claim such abuse- such as myself. Doug Mesner also threw a satanic rally himself- and has performed in a satanic rock band in his past- so to say that such a thing as SRA doesn’t exist when you are dabbling in the very behavior discredits this article and it’s write from the very start.

then Doug Replied

Doug Mesner David Shurter has been a speaker at a SMART conference (mentioned above), where in 2009 I attended and found they were selling electromagnetic beam-blocking hats, and providing a lecture about about some deranged theory of spiritual “demonic harmonics” opening “quantum portals”. David Shurter, like Pat Goodwin (aka Felicity Lee), came forward as a firm defender of the supernatural MPD-themed book, 22 Faces, though he admitted that he had not even read it! David posted these facts on Amazon, in the review section of the book, before he was banned from Amazon’s forums for abuse. Davis says a lot of things that never seem to have anything to do with the topic at-hand, and this is no exception. He claims “NO sociologist” uses the term “Satanic Panic”. In fact, a simple Google search could have corrected him. It is a widely used term, and there is even a book titled “Satanic Panic” written, indeed, by a Sociologist. Then, without citation, he says a bunch of things about a variety of people. He claims that E. Loftus, the research Psychologist at the University of California — Distinguished Professor Department of Psychology and Social Behavior Department of Criminology, Law, and Society, Department of Cognitive Sciences Fellow, Center for the Neurobiology of Learning and Memory; Member, American Academy of Arts and Sciences; Member, National Academy of Sciences — has had her work debunked in “test after test”. Perhaps Shurter would like to tell us about those tests, or maybe he should have contacted somebody about these apparently secret tests before Loftus was awarded the Scientific Freedom and Responsibility Award from the American Association for the Advancement of Science and the William T. Rossiter Award from the Forensic Mental Health Association of California in the past couple of years alone. Perhaps Shurter would like to tell me what “satanic rock band” I ever performed in, as I seemed to have missed that show. Perhaps it was SO satanic, that I repressed all memory of it.

So I replied

David Shurter Doug and many of his False Memory supporters have ALSO been banned- and now are completely quiet on Amazon probably because the Amazon’s legal department is looking into the overt harassment that has come from Doug in posts much like this one. Routinely accessing survivor’s families and laughing about it on online forums, Doug is a self professed leader in all things False Memory- which WAS developed by accused pedophile to help other accused pedophiles.

Yes- I have been a speaker at the SMART conference before, and have NEVER SEEN any vendors other than a book seller- so whatever Doug is referring to has not been present again since- considering I came a year after he “infiltrated” the conference WITH THE FULL REASON TO TRASH IT. Discrediting the hundreds, if not thousands, of people who have attended this conference that has existed for over 16 years now- Doug takes ONE aspect of the conference and runs with it- and then wonders why people choose to question his tactics.

I did not come in support of 22 Faces but in fact was defending SRA- which Doug and his cohorts want to assert deals with aliens and abductions although NO SURVIVORS THAT I AM ACQUAINTED WITH BELIEVE IN SUCH. Spinning the conversations any way he can in order to disparage anyone who agrees with him, Doug has proven to be tenacious in his dislike for survivors who would come forward and claim to be victims of MKUltra and satanic ritual abuse. This guy goes out of his way to cause trouble- both on the internet as well as in the real world- for anyone that would disagree with him- and has pretty much proven himself to be a cyber stalker for many survivors.

Then miSICKO replied

Doug Mesner David — Again, I ask, because you seem to make up everything you pretend to know: what “satanic rock band” do I perform with? Where do you get this information? And for that matter, I have no idea what you are referring to with Amazon. I have encountered no trouble with them. And now you say I only criticize “ONE aspect” of the SMART conference. Clearly, you never read my 2-part SMART conference report, in which mention of the electromagnetic beam-blocking hats was all of one sentence. Here are the links, for your convenience:

Report from the S.M.A.R.T. Ritual Abuse/Mind-Control Conference 2009, Part 1

Report from the S.M.A.R.T. Ritual Abuse/Mind-Control Conference 2009, Part 2

Also, here is a link to a piece that contains scans of the conference program and images from the electromagnetic beam-blocking hat vendor’s catalogue:
In what way, David, do you believe that me and my “cohorts” assert that your delusions of satanic ritual abuse “deals with aliens and abductions”? Do you understand the parallel made to “recovered memories” of cult abuse and “recovered memories” of alien abduction? Or do you think that I’m asserting that somebody who believes in one must believe in the other? It is not clear you understand what you presume to be talking about at all half of the time (at best). To be very clear — narratives of satanic ritual abuse and alien abduction are based on the same standards of evidence. I’m not certain how to state it more clearly than that, though I’m sure you’ll find a way to fail to understand once more.
But, really, David, please tell me about the “satanic rock band” you claim I perform in. I would like to know where you get your information on these things, and how you decide any of this information is credible. What’s this rock band about? Are you simply making things up?

So I replied

David Shurter Rock band aside- you did throw a satanic rally in Florida, did you not?

I am not going to read your criticisms Doug, you went to the SMART conference completely biased- and think that insults are going to cover such inadequacies of your argument. Again- my arguments with Omaha NE don’t fit with the “parallels” that you offer in order to distract and berate arguments you disagree with. I understand what you are doing Doug- in fact, in so many ways I find your behavior and what you say to be often biting and generally always fraudulent. Regardless of where I heard you were in a satanic rock band- I published pictures of you RECENTLY throwing a satanic rally- so that would be more prevalent- as it is as you said on Amazon regarding all of this that we “all make mistakes in our youth”.

Again- you aim your personal criticisms at me and use YOURSELF as a resource. Strange, but whatever. I am sure that you find my presence on here unwelcome and it is only a matter of time before you start to complain but until then- I guess I can defend myself as much as I wish- as it was YOU AND YOUR FRIENDS who got me banned. Tried it on Facebook as well- but failed. This time I won’t mince words and be funny.

The organization that endorses you fights for accused pedophiles. I personally take issue with that, and since you fight so hard turning me into everyone you can think of- I take issue with you. You have done your best to try and trash me in every way that you have had at your disposal- only succeeding with Amazon. Not just me- but other authors as well- such as Judy Byington, whom you have harassed relentlessly- showing that you are INDEED a cyber stalker.

Anyone who is going to read this will focus on that more than any rock band. You fight for those who are accused of hurting children- and I don’t much think that there is anything worse than that. And you will attack, in any and every way you can- ANYONE who comes against you, which says more about you than it does about me.

Then miSICKO replied

Doug Mesner “Rock band aside”??? Why put the rock band aside, David? You’re making claims of fact. What are they based on? What credibility do you have? You’re simply making things up. You claimed that Research Psychologist Loftus had been debunked in “test after test”. I asked you to cite these tests. You didn’t. You are making things up. YOU published pictures of ME? Again, I have no idea what you are talking about in the depths of your delusions, David. Do you even realize that you are entirely making things up, or are you so completely deranged that you don’t even recognize it? You claim that I perform in a “satanic rock band”, but when I simply ask what you are talking about, you immediately back-track and say “rock band aside”… And then you admit that you won’t even read my criticisms. Then don’t pretend to reply to them, if you are too frightened to even think about them. You refuse to learn, David. This is how you maintain your delusion, but you make a complete fool of yourself when you expose yourself to the real world. You have no idea who I was when I went to the SMART conference, and, by your own confession, you refuse to even try to understand what my arguments are.

So I replied

David Shurter A therapist who saw you talk told me when you went to speak that you were dressed in severe goth- and she told me that you commented that you were in a band- and she basically inferred that you were connected to satanism- which is further promoted with your rally for Rick Scott. “Hail Satan= Hail Rick Scott- or perhaps you forgot posing for a picture in front of this banner. Who she is doesn’t matter- but the fact remains that you have not actually said you WEREN’T in a rock band- and have yet to say so- even at this juncture of the conversation- although this is a continuation of your insults from Amazon, which was MONTHS ago.

You have no clue who I am or what I have went through- any more than I have a clue who you are as an individual, but the fact that my older sister corroborates many of the things I have said- tells me that your arguments are nothing more than your attempt to make a name for yourself with a group of alledged pedophiles who protect others accused of pedophiles religiously- often disregarding the DETAILS of an individuals abuse- telling me that anyone who comes forward claiming ritual abuse is fodder for your attacks, and that you apply your arguments blanket style- dismissing much that you don’t have a clue about.

I don’t care about your arguments- what you DO is what concerns me. You are a cyber stalker who harasses anyone who stands against you, including myself. Then you insult and try to set yourself higher than those you see as a threat- showing that you are not only mean- but narcissistic as well. You attack victims and protect pedophiles arbitrarily and without remorse, and you think that you are all that and a bag of chips. I just beg to differ…

So miSICKO responded

Doug Mesner David, you say you don’t care who I am… after you go through great lengths to tell me who I am based on some anonymous “therapist” who went to see me “talk”? When? Where? Did you bring these same standards of “research” to your self-published book? You are completely making this up, David. You are a liar with no credibility whatsoever. “Severe goth”? You are sounding your age, David — talking about that “satanic rock music” that’s poisoning the minds of teens. And I do know what rally you’re talking about, as you’ve posted this all over the internet, too. Please, check out the article about it on Huffington Post, and tell me, are these the “satanists” you’re talking about? Is this the Satanic Cult Conspiracy that has it’s claws in the deepest reaches of Government? Are these the Satanists you are afraid of, David? Are you kidding me?
What do you mean when you say ” my older sister corroborates many of the things I have said”? You have previously claimed you have never “recovered” memories. Why does your sister’s corroboration matter? You say you don’t care about my arguments, but you care about what I do. All I do, as far as you’ve ever seen, is present arguments, David. What do you mean by “cyber-stalk”? You found ME here, David. In fact, you begged me to participate in your blog, and I did not. You are entirely falling apart here, David — but that’s to be expected if you refuse to even learn anything about what you presume to be arguing about.
But I’ll really be amused to know what you make of that Huffington Post article, and if you’re really convinced that this Satanic Temple is part of your MKULTRA scheme. I hope you don’t fail to answer that one, as you’ve failed to confront every other inconvenient question.

So then I replied

David Shurter lol- if that isn’t the pot calling the kettle black- you are a liar as well my friend- and the only credibility that you have is what you give yourself, you and I are pretty much in the same boat. No one really knows who you are- except those you attack- which I came into Amazon to prevent.

Omaha is NOT about a bunch of satanists running amok, but rather a group of very wealthy men who were involved with government mind control- in the form of MKULtra- child abductions and trafficking, and gunand drug running from the cocaine that was coming in from the whole Iran Contra affair. Your method of trying to make everything black and white is telling as to what kind of person you are. My memories were NEVER repressed- and there are quite a few people in Omaha- other than my sister- that corroborates my info- but again- because it doesn’t fit the parameters of what your punk age can deal with- you try to make it out to be something that it isn’t. Again- insult after insult- in the hopes that you will shut me down.

You are a cyber stalker who is being looked at by Amazon. I didn’t beg you to do anything- I just told you if you were going to attack someone- maybe it should be a man instead of all of the female survivor’s you were trying to destroy on Amazon. Defending pedophiles and attacking women are two things you ARE well known for Doug- and neither is worthwhile in my opinion. You focus on a stupid rock band like that makes any difference whatsoever- while dismissing the fact that you posed at your satanic rally with a banner that said “Hail Satan- Hail Rick Scott”.

Do I think you are a Satanist Doug? No- you are just a little boy trying to make a name for himself on the backs of others. You quietly and secretly attack anyone who disagrees with you- turning them into any agency you can think of to cause problems for them- while you tell yourself that you are all that and a bag of chips.

You DO have some credibility- as a pedophile protector and cyber stalker. Judy Byington is a great case for this. And you can go on and on about my book- but it is up for best book of the year- so whatever. Also- the hits that I have on my blog tell me that more people are listening than you are comfortable with- just like you were told at another False Memory Advocate who has been accused of pedophilia.

Which brings me to me last point- I am not fighting a bunch of satanists like you would suggest- but a bunch of pedophiles that are involved in a child abduction, trafficking ring. What happened in Omaha has little to do with satamism and more to do with a child trafficking and sex ring. And drugs coming in from the Contras. Make it out to be any “conspiracy” you can Doug- but in the end- I suggest you come back to Earth and try to understand what I am trying to fight. But then- you and I stand on opposite sides of the field concerning all of this, so I don’t see you doing anything other than coming up with a bunch more insults in order to try and shut me down.

But good job at the self promotion- all the links sending people to your stuff shows how desperate you are for attention.

Then Louis popped in and replied

Louise: he sounds like a winging girl…

Then a survivor by the name of Felicity jumped in and said

Felicity Lee David Shurter –

Just a quick thought. Doug is a professional troll – being one who baits commenters by bashing, telling untruths, etc. – at any front he can find. This front – this article – he was able to ‘create’ (this article should be reported) – the comments he writes are so deceptive as to be slanderous. They demonstrate that he will say literally anything – argue with anyone in order to demonstrate his skills as the ‘prefect skeptic’ – he is a member of – a site that teaches members a form of argument called ‘woo-woo’ – where they don’t need to know anything about the subject matter – just to call those who do – “liars” – which he does constantly (this site also founded by a member of the FMSF). Again, this article stinks all over of the FMSF and their disproved theories. Their very existence depends on suing therapists who they claim are ‘recovering false memories’ and creating multiple personalities. They believe that therapists are able to ‘implant’ false memories in clients’ minds. Yeah – anyone KNOWS that IS ‘magical thinking. How these women will convince a jury that is what happened to them will be interesting to see. All I can say is that if they can prove this notion to a jury – Mesner may be able to win that million dollars that Randi is offering for those who can prove ‘magic’ is ‘real’.

No one should have to relive the nightmare he caused on Amazon. We can only hope to forget the literally thousands of slanderous posts there. Luckily, channel 4 did ban him (and his sockpuppets) for their behavior on the channel 4 article……

So miSICKO added this to the conversation

Doug Mesner David Shurter — Not only did you not read the article you are posting comments about, but you can’t seem to keep up with this very dialogue either. You’ve made a lot of claims, David. Can you clarify any of them? Let’s check the tally, shall we?
1) You claim I am in a “satanic rock band”. What band?
You say you heard this from a “therapist” who went to see me speak.
2) Where was this speech and when? I am giving public speeches now?
3) You said Elizabeth Loftus’s work had been debunked in “test after test”. Can you name these tests?
4) You accuse me of being a “satanist” affiliated with the people in this Huffington Post article: Is this “Satanic Temple” seriously part of your MKULTRA/satanist conspiracy?
Try to keep up, David. I know you confuse easily…

Then miSICKO responded to Louis

Doug Mesner Louise — David always sounds like that. Before he got banned from Amazon, David was trying to insult me by referring to me as a homosexual. This is odd because, not only does such a thing NOT have anything to do with anything, but I am not homosexual and David IS. So David, who is openly homosexual, was ACCUSING me of being a homosexual, as though that were something to be ashamed of. When I looked back over the thread, I could see that David was accusing me of everything he had, himself, flagrantly done. Now consider that, and then consider that now David tries to tie me somehow to paedophilia. This is especially odd because the story in question contains no mention of any minors anywhere whatsoever. I tend to think this is another bizarre instance of projection on David’s part.

So I responded

David Shurter Doug Misicko- (why do you go under Mesner) -here you are trying to trash both Felicity and I and again are getting frustrated when I don’t adhere to your black and white thinking.
1. Why don’t you ever deny being in a satanic rock band? Maybe because you admitted to it on Amazon- saying that “we all make mistakes in our past”.
2. I don’t remember- or care to remember- the specifics of who and when I was told. I think you do anything to garner attention to yourself- and if that includes speeches- then so be it. I mean- it isn’t like you just threw a pathetic satanic rally with you and three girls for Rick Scott- so I think you would do pretty much anything you can to get attention.
3. Elizabeth Loftus is not taught in ANY school- nor can you show where anyone follows her other than the False Memory Foundation. She ALSO has a history of trying to protect accused pedophiles though- so I can see why she is one of your heros.
4. I NEVER accused you of being a satanist- just that you give sad rallys promoting it. And you are NOT part of MKUltra- as they only picked the best and brightest. Besides- can you really call something that consisted of four kids a rally?

Now let me say what you seem to want to disregard-
1- you are a cyber stalker and pedophile protector.
2- You are being investigated by the Amazon legal dept. for MAJOR issues that you have caused.
3- while you also protect pedophiles, you openly and publicly attack women and survivors.
and lastly-
4- Where are your supporters like critthink, karmakaze, and all of your other sock puppetsm that you use on Amazon?

You are a creepy kid- who I think, in my dealings with you- has serious psychological issues. You run with the False Memory crowd calling yourself a skeptic- when all you are is some intrusive, game playing, accusation throwing, manipulator who is desperately trying to make a name for yourself by using others work- such as the False Memory Foundation- because you are not capable to conducting or doing your own work that anyone would respect. You go under Mesner when your name is Mi S I C K O- (which suits you better by the way), all the while you try to destroy others for the same practice. You are sad.

Confused by you- no. Put off by everything that you stand for- MOST DEFINITELY.

Then I responded to Louis

David Shurter Louis- notice that NOT ONE GUY JOINED DOUG MISICKO WITH HIS PATHETIC RALLY for Rick Scott. As an openly gay man- I have found that most gay men hang with women or other gay men. Doug’s friends- those who support him- consisted of three girls- and no men- or else- logic says- they would have joined Misicko with his “satanic” rally.

Then I added

David Shurter but Dougy is right- it takes one to know one- and Doug not only is a cyber stalker- but his attitude suggests that he is pretty light in the loafers.

Then miSICKO responded

Doug Mesner David — to reply to you point-by-point:

1. Why don’t you ever deny being in a satanic rock band? Maybe because you admitted to it on Amazon- saying that “we all make mistakes in our past”.

Okay, David, I’m not in a “satanic rock band”, nor have I ever been. Nor did I ever answer the question of such with the quote you give above. You are either entirely making things up again, or failing to make sense of the information in front of you. Why have you never denied being a satanic pedophile yourself, David?

2. I don’t remember- or care to remember- the specifics of who and when I was told. I think you do anything to garner attention to yourself- and if that includes speeches- then so be it. I mean- it isn’t like you just threw a pathetic satanic rally with you and three girls for Rick Scott- so I think you would do pretty much anything you can to get attention.

So here you are more or less admitting that you are simply making things up. You can’t name a source, you can’t remember, you can’t support a single thing you say. Just like your poorly-written self-published book.

3. Elizabeth Loftus is not taught in ANY school- nor can you show where anyone follows her other than the False Memory Foundation. She ALSO has a history of trying to protect accused pedophiles though- so I can see why she is one of your heros.

The question was not whether or not Loftus is taught in schools, but you’re wrong again here, too. Not only is Loftus taught in school — her research part of standard textbooks — but she even teaches at the University of California — another fact mentioned in this conversation alone that you seem to have missed.

4. I NEVER accused you of being a satanist- just that you give sad rallys promoting it. And you are NOT part of MKUltra- as they only picked the best and brightest. Besides- can you really call something that consisted of four kids a rally?

You have ALWAYS accused me of being a satanist!! How much more deranged could you possibly get?

And now, to address your other “points”:

1- you are a cyber stalker and pedophile protector.

You followed me here, David. You calling me a “cyber stalker” is similar to you calling me homosexual as an insult when you are openly homosexual. And then you throw in pedophilia, and we have a good idea now what this says about you (especially as this article says nothing about any minors whatsoever).

2- You are being investigated by the Amazon legal dept. for MAJOR issues that you have caused.

You are making this up, or you are simply delusional, again. Amazon banned you, they have had no reason to contact me. What kind of “investigation” could take them so many months, David. Do you imagine that Amazon has sent agents to watch my daily moves.

3- while you also protect pedophiles, you openly and publicly attack women and survivors.
and lastly-

We’ve already established a good theory regarding your affinity for pedophilia, David. If you read the article I wrote here, I’m not certain who you are referrring to as “survivors” or how you imagine I’m “attacking” them in any way.

4- Where are your supporters like critthink, karmakaze, and all of your other sock puppetsm that you use on Amazon?

I never used any sock-puppets on Amazon, but I remember you accusing some guy of being me just because his name was Douglas. Do you ever tire of making a fool of yourself?

So I replied

David Shurter Misicko- you are a distraction- nothing more. The whole “therapists have the ability to IMPLANT MEMORIES IN PEOPLE’S HEADS” is a ludicrous argument- and nothing you say about me, or Felicity- or anyone else matters. You go to places that you aren’t welcome, attending under false pretenses, and then call me delusional and a fake. Obviously- again- being up for book of the year- the professionals that have read my book disagree with your assessment on my book. By the way- I did read your above article- and you have NO BUSINESS CRITICIZING ANYONE ABOUT THEIR WRITING, because yours seems to be definitely lacking. What I do think is that you are a victim of some weird abuse yourself and that is why you are as creepy as you are. Amazon is not rushing into anything- legal stuff doesn’t work like it does on tv- but I think you are better aware of whats going on than I do since NONE OF YOUR SOCKPUPPETS ARE STILL POSTING. You ALL disappeared all at once- and I don’t find that coincidental- any more than anyone else does. Your techniques are often underhanded- and you don’t really have any respect from your peers- considering your turnout at your rally- if you can call it that. You lie- you deceive, you attack- and just HOW do you know what you are reporting in your article as I don’t really believe that you are in any way in the know concerning the specific of Castlewood- and I have every intention of sending them to this article tomorrow when we are back to business hours. And- a little bird told me that the reason why you don’ use your real name is because you are ILL KNOWN by people who HAVE removed you from their conferences- and they explain the same thing I have heard from everyone else- your just a creepy kid. Who my sources are and the specifics of my conversation are none of your business- but it has been by your own actions that you are known- and no one I have met or talked who knows about you has any respect for you. I certainly have no respect for you- in fact- I am kinda disgusted by men who fight for pedophiles and abuse women at will. Again- I just think you are some strange sort of victim yourself- and that is why you do what you do.

So then Doug miSICKO responded

Doug Mesner So Amazon has a legal suit against me, in your delusional mind? Did you hear this from another anonymous source who, perhaps, talked to King Amazon himself? You say the idea “therapists have the ability to IMPLANT MEMORIES IN PEOPLE’S HEADS” (why you put this in quotes is unclear — I never wrote this) is a “ludicrous argument”. You really don’t know, exactly, what the false memory thing is all about, do you? Do you believe in recovered memories of alien abduction, or not, David? We already know you believe in an international Satanic Cult Conspiracy — and THAT somehow is more plausible to you than false memories? You also say you are “kinda disgusted by men who fight for pedophiles and abuse women at will”. I’m not sure why you mention this, but you are only “kinda” disgusted by this??? Does this mean you’re “kinda” okay with it as well? You are very sick, David. You need help.

So I responded

David Shurter No Misicko- twist all you want- but I was trying to be nice- knowing how you like to run to people and tell on them like a child when you are upset. I find you more pathetic than anything- to sad to really be disgusting to be honest. Mine, and thousands of others, accusations have NOTHING to do with aliens or any belief in alien abduction but rather deals with issues of extreme sexual abuse and mind control on behalf of government experimentation that are well know to have existed. No one implanted the memories of their children coming home with STDs from their daycares in the 80s, and – not being old enough to remember- you have not a clue what it was like back then or how things played out. That is the benefits to age.

You need therapy- or something Doug. Get help= cause if you don’t – you are only going to get worse- and judging by EVERY ONE OF YOUR REPLIES on this article- you are NOT a happy person. Life is too short guy- get therapy so you don’t end up alone, and it is my impression from my interactions with you this past 6 months or so that you are incredibly unhappy and very alone- and again- I find that sad.

To which miSICKO responded

Doug Mesner Unbelievable, David. You simply have no idea whatsoever what you are talking about, do you? You can not even follow one linear train-of-thought. Do I have to break it down for you in the most basic of terms every time?

1) Did you even read the article I wrote? Do you have criticisms directly related to the article? If not, why do you continue to make a fool of yourself here?

And, as you’ve failed on every other question, let me ask again regarding Amazon

2) What in the hell are you talking about? Why, in your delusional mind, do you insist that Amazon is investigating me for “MAJOR” legal issues? Who told you this? An alleged “agent” of Amazon?

You are well outside of reality, David.

3) You also failed to answer the question of what you meant when you said that your sister has corroborated much of what you’ve claimed. Previously, you’ve claimed that you’ve never recovered any memories. Are you changing your story now?

For that matter, David, what do you know about any of this, being that you don’t even claim to be a case study in “recovered memories”? You claim that you were Satanically abused, so any claim of satanic abuse must be true? Even, it seems, in a case like this where the women litigating themselves say they were falsely led to believe they were victims of satanic abuse? That seems to be the entirety of your argument, David. I don’t even think you know what you are trying to say most of the time. You go to pieces immediately every time you engage, and yet you insist on “cyber-stalking” me across the internet.

Then miSICKO added

Doug Mesner Where were, though, David? Let me see if I can work out the tally off the top of my head:

You came here claiming that no sociologist uses the term “satanic panic”: you are proven wrong.

You claim Loftus has been debunked in “test after test”: you can’t provide support. You are lying.

You claim Loftus has never been taught in schools: she is in multiple textbooks and teaches at a University. You are wrong or lying.

You claim I am in a “satanic rock band”: You are lying.

You claim that the Satanic Temple group that held a rally in Florida in defense of a prayer in school bill — which most people took as an elaborate prank — both is and isn’t tied to an elaborate conspiracy, but it endorses satanism either way, or…? It’s impossible to make sense of it, David: You are delusional.

You claim I am being “investigated” on some type of unnamed “MAJOR” legal issues by Amazon: You are lying.

You claim you spoke to a therapist who came to see me speak, and I was dressed in “heavy goth” (though you can’t name who or where): You are lying.

You say your sister has corroborated your claims, though you claim you haven’t any recovered memories: You are incoherent.

You accuse me of being gay when I’m not, while you are openly gay. You accuse me of being a “cyber-stalker” while you follow me around commenting on my articles. You also accuse me of some type of interest in pedophilia: You are projecting

You think I am a satanist, but you also think I am not a satanist: You are incoherent

You clearly never even read this article, just as you never read 22 Faces when you defended that book.

You think that any claim of satanic abuse must be true, because you believe in a satanic conspiracy: You are delusional

You fail to recognize that the same evidence for alien abduction is all that is brought to bear in Satanic Ritual Abuse: You are lacking in basic critical thinking.

I’m sure there’s plenty I’ve missed.

David Shurter Misicko- maybe you should be aware that my sister- who graduated at the top of her class with both her bachelor’s of science and masters- did her masters work on the false memory foundation and the whole false memory controversy- so I have a great resource in all this. I have more things to do with my time than tend to your childish attacks- however- 1. I never had repressed memories- but still 2. Corroboration is ALWAYS necessary. Are you aware of the NAMBLA connection that is connected with the organization that you fight with such veracity? I do, and it is going in the second book- but then- YOU HAVENT BOTHERED TO READ THE FIRST ONE. So whatever.

Then I added

David Shurter You are lying Misicko- and twisting things in your lies. Byington is going to have your behind in the end- and I am going to laugh my petooty off. Every survivor is aware of you now buddy- and I think that it is entertaining. You aren’t destroying me child- you are nothing really to me. However- people are seeing the angry child within you. Lying is what you are good at- it is what you are known for- and that has to do with what YOU HAVE DONE- and has nothing to do with me. Look in the mirror buddy- that is your enemy- not me.

miSICKO responded with

Doug Mesner Excellent, David. I rest my case. Thank you.

So I responded

David Shurter Still- as always- the real questions I have posed for you remain unanswered as you sit at your computer convinced you have emotionally or intellectually destroyed me in each and every way- not realizing that I could care less about you. I read your article- it was poorly written about things you could not POSSIBLY have any real knowledge about but, as you say about me- have convinced yourself that your opinions are facts. Where is false memory in the DSM? or is that why you are so against it. Memories aren’t implanted in peoples heads but rather- money hungry women think they can take advantage and profit from things that couldn’t happen to them now. Funny- you actually argue that memories can be implanted into people’s brains- and that all abuse issues- that are sexually against children in nature- are just fabricated by therapists. We are just never going to agree. But your writing stinks- what exactly was your thesis statement in all of this? That was never given- but then- your only objective is to attack on behalf of the False Memory work who are very connected. Again- you overstepped boundaries and I am going to do my best to see that you are held accountable for your behavior- and if you think that survivor’s are connected and working to further our cause you would be correct- and the fact that you cyber stalk- and infiltrate victim’s families in order to hurt the victim, and go after author’s who write books- you are definitely on a lot more people’s radars than just the ones you have attacked. Castlewood will probably be interested- and I know that amazon is DEFINITELY interested in your behavior- and it is just worthwhile to know that although you like to publish under Mesner- your real name is Misicko. Did you think you are the only one who can pick up a phone?

Then miSICKO responded

Doug Mesner David — Again, please try to make sense. We’ll do it by number again.
You say:
1) “the real questions I have posed for you remain unanswered”
Really? What questions? Put them in question form, and try to be coherent. Also, please see the multitude of unanswered questions I’ve presented to you, and answer them if you presume to ask me anything now.
2) You accuse me of writing “about things you could not POSSIBLY have any real knowledge about but, as you say about me- have convinced yourself that your opinions are facts”
What of these things could I not possibly have knowledge about? That their are litigants suing Castlewood? Follow the hyperlinks, David, you can even see the suits yourself. Do I not know that the chair of DSM called MPD/DID “bunk”? Follow the link there as well. It’s attributed. Same with the fact that the NIMH abandoned the DSM. These are all facts, David.
3) You say that I argue “that all abuse issues- that are sexually against children in nature- are just fabricated by therapists.”
I have never said this anywhere. You are a libelous liar, David. Show me where I have EVER said this. You are a complete liar, and you’ve been making up bizarre claims about me all over the internet while calling ME a cyber-stalker!
4) “what exactly was your thesis statement in all of this?”
It’s inevitable that you’ll be confused, David. Did you make it past the headline?
5) and now you say Amazon “is DEFINITELY interested” in my behavior.
You still base this on absolutely nothing, but now it seems to have been downgraded from the “MAJOR” legal investigation you claimed earlier.
6) You claim Castlewood will be interested.
You are not only delusional, but incredibly unintelligent if you think I’m hoping Castlewood doesn’t notice this piece. Their seeing it was inevitable from the start. The article comes up in Google’s News Feed, and I’m sure they are following their press.

So I replied

David Shurter Why don’t you call Amazon and ask to talk to customer service regarding 22 Faces. They can’t do anything- because the account is now in their legal department. Your such a good investigator-make a call. I did. That is what they told me. The attacks on survivor’s and your involvement into people’s private lives IS of interest- esp. when it is connected to them and a book they sell- and believe it or not- they owe more to their sellers than their commentators. I am an extreme abuse survivor of the worst nature- as is my sister- and yet you go out of your way to call me a liar- which is the only evidence I need that your job is discredit survivors and protect pedophiles. Nothing I haven’t said before. And I am not the only one who found your article laughable. I am sure that the lawyers are keeping you in the know- and that Castlewood has come out during a lawsuit and declared such things. Insult all you want- your lack of self worth comes out with every word. If you don’t want people to think you protect pedophiles- then STOP ATTACKING VICTIMS.

So miSICKO attacked with

Doug Mesner So, let me get this straight: Amazon had a paranoid delusional on the phone with them (you), and they told you they’d look into it (probably to get you off the phone). Months later, you still feel a major investigation is underway regarding a review and comments that you disagreed with?? But speaking of legal trouble, David, you’ve consistently made claims about me that are flat lies. You say that I argue “that all abuse issues- that are sexually against children in nature- are just fabricated by therapists.” This is a serious claim, and it is a flat lie, like so many other things you’ve said. Yet again, when pressed to back up a claim, you completely ignore it. The only thing that’s saved you from legal action thusfar, David, is that fact that you are so clearly delusional and unintelligent that I don’t feel at risk that anybody with any sense will believe a word you say — but that will only carry you so far. You lied about me being a “Satanic rock band”, you’ve called me a “pedophile protector”, and I want to know exactly how you justify the statement that I argue from a position that “all abuse issues- that are sexually against children in nature- are just fabricated by therapists”?? Where are you getting this stuff from? How do you justify making absurd, libelous statements based on no facts whatsoever?

So I replied

David Shurter Yeah Doug- the only honest one when it comes to survivors is you. And it wasn’t me who filed the 36 page complaint- I’m just telling what I know of the situation. No one finds me paranoid or delusional Doug- that is a projection on your part. You have spent your young life lying and trying to trash anyone who is connected to Satanic ritual abuse- which you expressed interest in the conference I know you were asked to leave. Those people referred to you as creepy. Not my words- theirs. Most find me pretty personal- and not at all delusional. I don’t give a damn what you have done- other than the fact that you threw a satanic rally for Rick Scott- which you continuously steer away from, and you argue and attack victims- which- in turn- whether you are aware of it or not- is FIGHTING FOR THE PEDOPHILE. Not libelous, just logical observation. You are a creepy dude on Amazon- everyone I have spoken to about you expresses that you are a weird kid- and so I will take others assessments of you before I take your own self assessment. Maybe one of your “girlfriends” can help you with this if you have a problem with it. Your actions become you dude- what you do matters- no matter how many sock puppets you use to do it. And lie and attack all you want- but maybe you should think before you act- cause some, not me- took action against it. Better get on your phone Mr. Liar Pants- cause you are BUSTED. And I have no idea how long the lawyers are going to take at Amazon- i mean- they don’t tell me things like the ones involved with Castlewood must of done with you. Some of us are just not as- how do I say it- as creative as you. Kudos.

Then miSICKO said

Doug Mesner Okay, David, you’ve failed to make any sense once more. What is so difficult about the question? You’ve made these claims, David, I’m only asking you to support them.

HOW do you justify your statement how that I argue from a position that “all abuse issues- that are sexually against children in nature- are just fabricated by therapists”?

I was not asked to leave any conference, David. I assume you are talking about the SMART conference where they were selling the electromagnetic beam-blocking hats? You are lying again.

And I haven’t steered away from your allegations regarding this satanic rally in Florida at all. I’ve been trying desperately to get you to make some kind of coherent statement about what exactly you’re claiming there, but you’ve failed repeatedly.

Then you carry on about all of the unnamed, mysterious people who have referred to me as “creepy”. That’s great, David. Perhaps one of those people was the alleged therapist who came to see me speak — though you can’t say who it was, or even where I was allegedly speaking? You are making things up, David. You are a liar.

But, again David, you are either unwilling or intellectually unable to actually read what I’ve written in my articles, but you think my argument is from a position that “all abuse issues- that are sexually against children in nature- are just fabricated by therapists”? Where have I ever said this? Where have I even suggested this? What, in your mind, justifies this libelous statement?

So I replied

David Shurter No, Im not speaking about the SMART conference- and I am not going to tell you who I spoke with cause frankly- 1. it isn’t your business and 2. you have a HISTORY of harassing anyone you deem as a threat and I am not going to give your pathetic behind anyone else to attack. They didn’t let you in- so no damage was done. You proved yourself to be foolish to others- and if you think that therapists don’t talk – you don’t know much about therapy (but then- you think they are capable of implanting memories in peoples brains- which is more sci fi than I am comfortable with, so that probably goes without saying). YOU ARE A DISTRACTION, your rally was trying to nay say satanic ritual abuse in a way that made fun of it- pathetic that you could only get your best three girls to attend- but hey- you made the news- as you knew you would. I don’t care about your writing Doug- I read your article and have checked out your website and I think your writing stinks personally. You didnt even come up with the whole Alien equation yourself- that comes from Elizabeth Loftus. In fact- there is little about you that is original at all. You are definitely average. And that is my opinion dealing with you. Underhanded, strangely aggressive- both on the internet and in the real world- and generally mean to anyone you deem is below you intellectually. So understand this- like most people you have probably encountered- I DON’T CARE WHAT YOU THINK. I don’t care if you were or were not in a rock band- although “we all make mistakes in our youth”- and I don’t care what you think because I only need to look at Loftus and all the other pedophile defenders to get your argument- which is NOT yours. You have contributed NOTHING but grandstanding for them. You are a pathetic little boy who doesn’t like the fact that you are pretty much alone in the world- and it is probably going to stay that for quite a bit longer.

To which miSICKO replied

Doug Mesner David, you are lying AGAIN. I was not denied access to any conference, but if I WAS would it make ANY SENSE AT ALL that you would refuse to tell me which conference that was??? I would already know, wouldn’t I?! You are clearly making things up. You are clearly lying. And, in all of that text, you ignore the one question that gets to the core of what you claim to be arguing me about:

You say that I argue “that all abuse issues- that are sexually against children in nature- are just fabricated by therapists.”
I have never said this anywhere, nor does this accurately represent my position in any way at all.
Where do you get this, David? Is it all part of your cherished delusion that places you in the center of a massive plot, or are you willfully, consciously, and maliciously lying?

Then miSICKO added

Doug Mesner David, I wonder just how oblivious you are at how utterly foolish, delusional, and dishonest you come off. Why not post this FULL dialogue on your blog?

So I said, at the time- because obviously I changed my mind…

David Shurter I am not going to publish anything we exchange because I am not going to advertise you or your inane arguments. None of your attacks on me have worked thus far- and I AM sending this to people, and sending them in here to read this if they want. But I decided not to publish the links you published and knowing that you would make a fuss- decided not to do it. You are a liar Misicko- flat out. And I am not going to say anything that you could possibly use against someone- so forget it. You have proven your skills at cyber stalking- that is undeniable- and only a fool gives their enemy ammunition, and you seem to attack anyone at will- and no one I know needs that for simply having a conversation about you. You want to be famous- better get used to people talking about you. You fight for pedophiles- you attack victims- and you do your best- Mr. Misicko- to do anything you can to infringe on others rights to justice by trying to intimidate and harass them into silence, and it doesn’t work with me. I judge you by your actions- since I think that what comes out of your mouth is whatever you think sounds good generally- and your past seems to be fluid- whereas mine is constant. I don’t for a minute believe that all of the people who consistently hit my blog think I am delusional either. I don’t like you- besides what I have heard from people you have interacted with in the past- I have found you to be a child. As have others. But again- I have no interest in helping you further whatever cause you seem to be fighting- whether it be a satanic rally for Rick Scott- or slamming victims and trying to out them in a form of intimidation, or rallying people against authors claiming that you are saving mankind from another witchhunt. It pains you that you are not as magnanimous as you would like to present- as EVERYONE who I have talked with- both from the SMART conference and from other places- have found you to be pretty off, so say what you want- that is what I have heard. If you don’t like it- then maybe you should look at yourself instead of huffing and puffing and trying to convince people that I am a delusional liar. Anything that works for you guy, but excuse me if I just laugh it off. But you should be used to that by now- huh?

Then Felicity Lee jumped in and added

Felicity Lee Doug Mesner/Misicko/CritThink/ whatever –

I find this interchange sad as well as disturbing. You spent months commenting regularly (literally thousands of post) – each similar to what you are posting here on Amazon, because you didn’t like the book “22 Faces” by Judy Byington. You bashed survivors, you snooped into and published other commenters’ personal information, you called me a liar hundreds of times, you caused emotional upset to many survivors of abuse who simply tried to post a review or comment. And, you wonder why there might be an investigation of you and your sockpuppets’ behavior there. Really? You think, then, that it is okay to slander, attack, and intrude into people’s lives who you don’t even know? – What do you consider it – some kind of punishment for not agreeing with you?

You are doing it again here with David – and, he is put in similar position of trying to protect himself and other survivors from your blatant attacks. Your behavior is/has been beyond shocking, as well as frightening to survivors who don’t understand your intentions. You have no ethics – and no creditability, but that doesn’t stop you from attacking – does it?

Your article is just what I said – a poor attempt at propaganda – as if it is ‘news’ – it IS NOT – – you are ignorant in the area of trauma and dissociation and/or this case. As you did at Amazon, you repeat the same questions over and over when put in your corner. “Do you believe in aliens?” ” Do you believe in levitation? ” Those questions have nothing to do with this discussion – and, you know it.

Bottom line – dougie – you cannot have your cake and eat it too. You hate survivors – obvious as how you disrespect them everywhere you go, but you supposedly support these women who ‘are’ survivors, but are also out to sue therapists for ‘implanting memories in their brains’. Either you don’t ‘really’ support them and are interested for other purposes – or you would support all survivors. Not the case – is it – dougie? You only support survivors who have a beef with their therapist or out to make a buck by suing them. Because this is how the FMSF survives – by suing therapists. And, if they don’t have a beef with their therapist, you try to ‘create’ on by accessing survivors’ families (spending time trying to influence them to turn on their therapists – even if they aren’t even ‘really’ their therapist) – like you did to Jenny’s family. You supposedly support Jenny – oh, until she stands up to you – then, the attack will come on her also.

Get it together Doug Misicko – decide what you stand for and stop trying to kiss up to the FMSF – they never made any more sense than your ridiculous theories do.

So Doug attacked Felicity with…

• Doug Mesner (censored) (aka Felicity Lee) — In all your hysterical bluster and rambling, you’ve still given absolutely zero evidence that you have either read or understood the article above. We understand that you cherish your delusions of an international cult conspiracy, and that you think that I am responsible for every comment on Amazon that you disagree with — but none of it is true. You are truly sick, Pat. The question about alien abduction, which you either refuse to understand, or lack the intellectual capacity to understand, is in fact, explained in the article above. It relates directly to recovered memories and the notion of Satanic Ritual Abuse. Both are narratives derived from the same methods and evidence. The question about levitation is relevant in a discussion with you, because you endorse the veracity of the book 22 Faces, which describes people levitating. If you think 22 Faces is a true story, you must believe people can levitate. It’s helpful to know these things about you when people measure your own credibility. And I don’t hate “survivors”, Pat, apparently you do. These women claim to have suffered the worst kind of malpractice, yet you take it upon yourself to condemn them and accuse them of trying to turn a buck before even learning the first thing about this case — just as you comment on this article without even reading it. It’s disgusting.

Then miSICKO turned his attack on me

Doug Mesner David Shurter — Amazing. I guess I could go through again and list the lies you’ve stated, the provable falsehoods that you could not substantiate, the incoherent things you’ve posted, and the basic questions you’ve failed to answer… but it’s all above. You should read through it and take note of how thoroughly you have failed…

So I responded

David Shurter dougy Mesner/Misicko and whatever other names you call yourself- if anyone knows failure- its you. You are one of the most dishonest people I have unfortunately come across, and of course you call everyone a liar- as that is what liars do. You have proven yourself to be nothing BUT a liar in the survivor community- and complain because some of us out here aren’t daunted by your attacks. You are a pathetic, mean spirited little boy trying to make a name for himself. I understood your poorly written article- all it is is a bunch of False Memory propaganda. You probably fight so hard for pedophilia because you are probably ARE one- God knows I wouldn’t let any kids around you alone for a second. Just an observation on my part- why should anyone trust he who fights for child molesters? and why do you do it- if you don’t have an objective- and despite what you say- it isn’t to “save the world from another witch hunt”. You just don’t like me Dougy- and that is okay- I am totally comfortable with it. I don’t deal with people who fight for pedophiles- and that is what you do- CONSTANTLY- while telling others that you are doing something else. You LOVE Debbie Nathan and Elizabeth Loftus- both who have made comments suggesting that our nation is too “hysterical” when it comes to sex with kids and have tried to convince others that the statute of limitations needs to be lowered. What heroes you have- your mother must be proud. Then you go out of your way to try and defame anyone you can who disagrees. You fight for pedophiles dude- is there anything lower? And you think you are all that in doing so. Again- anyone who is smart would keep you far away from their children.

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