Since Amazon deleted Karma’s last attempt at trashing me on my own book- he started another page. I am keeping the conversation in here so that I can publish it when it starts to get deleted….

Last edited by the author 6 hours ago
O’Karma the Lowly Leprechaun says:
Edited to add: David’s original statements (to which I’m responding) can be found in this review thread, from about pg 23 and on: http://www.amazon.com/review/R2IV99L0F7EP89/

In the spirit of David Shurter’s memoir, Rabbit Hole, in which he discusses his life history, and in the spirit of his blog and the rest of the Amazon fora (and internet) where he also constantly discusses himself and his life history, this thread was created for the purpose of discussing 1] the claims David made in his memoir, 2] the claims which he has repeated ad nauseum here on Amazon, on his blog (which he links here on Amazon), and to anyone who will listen.

The accusations he’s made in his memoir, and the similar/related accusations he’s made here on Amazon against people too numerous to list, deserve attention and scrutiny. To that end:

David Shurter says: >The conference is going strong, people are signing up< Are you and your sister scheduled to present again? Posted on Mar 15, 2015 8:20:36 AM PDT Last edited by the author 7 hours ago O’Karma the Lowly Leprechaun says:
David Shurter/LoessJedi says: >>That is why you look so ridiculous calling everyone you can to turn Ivory Garden.<< I think several people wanted to do something, but everyone is busy with their own lives and no one but *you* and your sister actually attacked Ivory Garden. Ironic, no? >>Since ABSOLUTELY NOTHING has happened as a result of your actions, << As a result of YOUR actions, you mean. You keep screaming about being ineffective, but you're the only who actually did anything (and failed). Your post: Mar 15, 2015 8:37:39 AM PDT LoessJedi says:
Since this thread was set up as an attack, just like the other one Karma set up that amazon removed in entirety, i won’t be responding on this. Karma has stated that he believes that I am mentally ill, and must hear voices ( which is a joke), but he still feels compelled to attack me constantly – such as setting up this thread. He is a bully, and he attacks and defamed those he believe are disabled and beneath him, and he does so from the shadows as an anon. He is angry because he believes that satanists don’t deserve the focus they are getting and he is fighting for the rights of all satanists, which can be seen in our conversations on amazon at Judy bbyington’s book 22 faces. Although I suffer from complex PTSD, i do not hear voices or am what Karma presents about me. Of course he doesn’t know me personally, but no bully ever knows the person they are trying to torment. However, he has stated over and over again that he believes I am mentally ill and yet persists in trying to attack and discredit me. I believe this fact says WAY MORE about who he is as a person than it does about me. I am just going to let him show his true colors this time. I think it is better this way. But as you can see from his last post, he will involve anyone in my life to try and attack me. I guess that is what he does to people he believes are mentally ill.

Posted on Mar 15, 2015 8:45:07 AM PDT
Last edited by the author 7 hours ago
O’Karma the Lowly Leprechaun says:
This, in particular, deserves attention:

David Shurter says, March 15, 2015: >First off, Ivory Garden is a charity organization and none of the money goes to her. That is why you look so ridiculous calling everyone you can to turn Ivory Garden.< So you lied last year? You said: >She is co-mingling funds from her non for profit for her own benefit and this is illegal.< You also said: >A simple audit of the situation and Ivory Garden- and Goodwin’s paypal account and the checks that she has written and cashed on Ivory Garden’s account- will show the validity of my claims.< You can't just shrug that off with an excuse that you were fighting. Those are serious claims that don't just go away, and no matter how much you delete, scrub your website, etc, these things are still out there, and anyone can find them. The internet is forever, David. Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 15, 2015 8:55:09 AM PDT Last edited by you 6 hours ago LoessJedi says:
Again, this shows karea’s obsession to try and bring down not only me but Felicity Lee, who runs Ivory Garden and hosts a conference for child abuse survivors. Everything he posts is an attack, even though he has stated over and over that I am mentally ill. This is indicative of karma’s actions, as he claims that children who claim sexual abuse are liars unless their perps are proven guilty in a court of law. These few posts of his in here blatantly shows his attitude towards those who claim childhood sexual abuse and those he considers mentally ill.

Posted on Mar 15, 2015 8:57:03 AM PDT
O’Karma the Lowly Leprechaun says:
David Shurter/LoessJedi says: >>So when did I set up a thread about you?<< I'm not derailing every 22 Faces thread, dragging the topic back to myself. But if I were, making a specific thread for me to discuss myself would make sense. >>You say over and over again that my actions forced you to do what you did, although you don’t seem to like to put it that way.<< I've said nothing of the sort. Creating a thread to contain your incessant me-me-me talk is something I did voluntarily, because, again, it just makes sense. >>since amazon chose to delete the entire discussion.<< Please. they deleted it because your sister, and probably Pat, complained. They don't have the man-power to pay close attention to this stuff, and a lot of times, if people complain, they'll just delete without investigating. It's remarkable that you, for a guy who's been banned *twice*, are so adamant that thread deletion is some ominous sign. >>I doubt people will be taken back by your overwhelming compassion << I doubt people will be terribly moved by your self-pity, given your vicious and unfounded attacks on others. Posted on Mar 15, 2015 8:59:09 AM PDT O’Karma the Lowly Leprechaun says:
DavidShurter/LoessJedi says: >>And since you have turned in ivory garden over and over and NOTHING has happened, << No, David, that was *you* who did that (and nothing happened). Remember? You said, in May, 2014: >>I am not stalking Felicity Lee/Pat Goodwin- neither of her real names. I and my sister HAVE been turning her in for fraud however.<< In reply to an earlier post on Mar 15, 2015 9:07:26 AM PDT Last edited by the author 6 hours ago CritThink says:
Man this dude appears to have some memory issues. I am not calling you ill, David, but seriously, have you talked to a doctor about this? Don’t go to a therapist from IG…as they are likely to attribute it to DID and say your alters are hiding stuff from your main personality or some poppycock like that. And you say you don’t have DID…that I believe! But dude, have the memory checked out.

Your post: Mar 15, 2015 9:07:54 AM PDT
LoessJedi says:
Again, more attacks. Anyone who goes onto 22 faces and looks at the comments can see that the majority of the conversation is either aimed at me or about me. Karma goes forth and does what he does but feels he is totally justified in his behavior because others, such as me, forced him to do what he did. And the thread got deleted because of this grou, as it was full of the same sort of attacks he is now making on this thread. neither pat, nor my sister, even come on amazon as they feel fighting the circular arguments of these people, who are NEVER responsible for what they do, is a waste of time. They, just like karma just did, blame everyone else and take absolutely no responsibility for their own actions. Saying my sis or pat reported his latest thread of attacks is ridiculous, and shows how he will blame anyone he can to prevent people from thinking of any wrong doing on his part.

In reply to your post on Mar 15, 2015 9:13:36 AM PDT
CritThink says:
Oh, how are Pat and your sis getting along these days? You seem to be the only person who comes in contact with Pat and takes her seriously. Your ex, your sis, Lori, Menagerie, Tylas, Insomniac and countless others can see what you don’t or won’t. Don’t listen to me…listen to the people closest to you…your sister, for one.

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 15, 2015 9:15:37 AM PDT
LoessJedi says:
Again, another attack aimed at his perception that I am mentally ill. And he has to include ivory garden in it as well, so basically he can attack anyone who is trying to help survivors. He obviously isn’t trying to help anyone, but seems obsessed in hurting those of us who are trying to help others. His constant insults are nothing more than an attempt to shut me down. Funny that he seems so threatened by someone he believes to be mentally ill.

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 15, 2015 9:18:50 AM PDT
LoessJedi says:
Again, they are using whoever they can to try and hurt us. They know nothing about either my sis or my ex, and want to do and say anything they can to try and shut down survivors such as myself. All doing so as anons so they don’t have to take responsibility for their actions. And they spend as much time trying to trash felicity as they do me. It is very telling.

Posted on Mar 15, 2015 9:22:00 AM PDT
O’Karma the Lowly Leprechaun says:
David Shurter/LoessJedi says: >>I published what you said on my blog verbatim so others could read it. << David. Which part of my post should they object to? You DID get all kinds of things wrong in your blog entry -- you get things wrong every single time you post. The rest is just an announcement that i opened a new thread. But hey, knock yourself out. Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 15, 2015 9:23:43 AM PDT LoessJedi says:
I suggest people check out igdid.Org to check out the extensive speaker list of people top in their fields to see who is taking felicity seriously. We have a strong line up of amazing speakers and they all appreciate and support felicity’s efforts. I would have you compare it with critthink conference, but it doesn’t have one. This groups actions are simply focused on destroying the efforts of others.

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 15, 2015 9:27:09 AM PDT
LoessJedi says:
thislol so says the attacking anonymous troll from amazon. You think it is wrong simply cause you say it is. Doesn’t make it so, but that doesn’t prevent you from claiming that it is. What authority do you have to make such claims? According to you, the only ones who tell the truth are your group who call all survivors liars.

Your post: Mar 15, 2015 9:28:58 AM PDT
LoessJedi says:
For those of you who want to check it out, my blog is davidshurter.com

Posted on Mar 15, 2015 9:37:09 AM PDT
O’Karma the Lowly Leprechaun says:
>>Karma has stated that he believes that I am mentally ill, and must hear voices ( which is a joke), << Actually, yes, I was being facetious about the hearing voices, but you do bring up an interesting point. Namely, I think you're lucid enough to know exactly what you're doing when you lie about and defame others. You know what you're doing, and your intent is malicious. So, while you do exhibit signs of paranoia and delusion, that doesn't excuse your hysterical false allegations. Your false claims need to be scrutinized and exposed for what they are. In reply to your post on Mar 15, 2015 9:47:12 AM PDT O’Karma the Lowly Leprechaun says:
>>David Shurter/LoessJedi says: >>You think it is wrong simply cause you say it is<< No, what you say is wrong because it's either in direct conflict with known facts, or because it's something you fabricated out of thin air. You even "admit" to these fabrications every time you INSIST that CritThink is Menagerie, then go on to confess in the very next comment that "no one knows who any of you are". It's one of the lies you continually get caught in. You also claimed that James Randi's foundation was in Seattle, with the Amazon headquarters, which you did at least admit was wrong. You were wrong *again* when you "explained" that they USED to be in Seattle -- except that no, you're wrong there too. They were never anywhere near Seattle and have no ties at all to Amazon. You get things wrong like that, important things that refute your own arguments(!!) on a consistent basis -- things you have no business getting wrong, because they are easily confirmed through a simple Google search. You fancy yourself an advocate, but your disdain for truth and facts makes you irresponsible at best, and at worse, you're causing immense harm to the very people you pretend to support. Your post: Mar 15, 2015 9:56:51 AM PDT LoessJedi says:
Oh, your little group can claim anything you want about survivors but we aren’t suppose to reply back. Other than offer an attack, what else are you doing? and with what authority are you able to make such claims and have others take them as valid? As far as my book goes, my older sis has stated publicity that I was telling the truth, only to have you call her a liar as well. Why should anyone take the word of an anonymous troll? Esp one who is fighting for satanism. What makes you believe people should find you so trustworthy? Because you claim it is true? And now you are back pedaling, claiming you don’t think I am mentally ill. People can go to my blog at davidshurter.com to see for themselves, they don’t need an anonymous troll to tell them what they should think. And reports have come forward that the government is employing people on the Web to do exactly what you are doing. Should you simply be believed that you aren’t one of these people just because you say your not? You obviously have an agenda, and discrediting me is part of it, although you have no idea who I am personally. But you are invested in keeping people from listening to me. Are you so convinced that people are just to stupid to see what you say is obviously true? Why do they need an anonymous troll to point out what you claim is so blatant? Are you so convinced they can’t think for themselves?

Posted on Mar 15, 2015 10:16:33 AM PDT
O’Karma the Lowly Leprechaun says:
David Shurter/LoessJedi says: >>Why, so you can harass them on the phone like you have done with EVERYONE at the conference? They all claim they have received numerous phone calls, and yy none of them have been swayed not to speak.<< Whoa -- who do you think I am, David? How would I know who was at the conference, except for the people *you've said* were there? You think *I* was at the conference, now? And, since you seem to have missed it, the entire comment was a joke. You said "I see professionals" and I was interpreting as an "I see dead people" statement. And I suppose in that sense, it does have some literal truth, because I don't believe that you "see" any professionals at all. (although, admittedly, you probably *should* be.) In reply to your post on Mar 15, 2015 10:22:40 AM PDT O’Karma the Lowly Leprechaun says:
David Shurter/LoessJedi says: >>Esp one who is fighting for satanism. << Of the numerous things you've gotten wrong again, let's start with this one: I have never "fought for" Satanism, and if you're claiming otherwise, the onus is on you to link my comments and copy and paste my exact words. You can't do that, of course, because you're lying. >>And now you are back pedaling, claiming you don’t think I am mentally ill.<< Actually, I'm not backpedaling at all. Re-read, or have someone read it to you if necessary: "I think you're lucid enough to know exactly what you're doing when you lie about and defame others. You know what you're doing, and your intent is malicious. So, while you do exhibit signs of paranoia and delusion, that doesn't excuse your hysterical false allegations. Your false claims need to be scrutinized and exposed for what they are." Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 15, 2015 10:31:21 AM PDT LoessJedi says:
I have never said I am invaluable. I have made mistakes and will probably do so in the future. However, I DO admit when I make mistakes and try to correct it. This fact you continously leave out.

And the only proof you offer that critthink isn’t menagerie is because you say so. For me that isn’t enough ugh, esp since you all like to twist things to put me in the worst possible light. You have an agenda to make me seem like something I am not. This says more about you than it does me. And immense harm? Who exactly have I brought immense harm too? And how exactly have they been hurt? and your wording shows exactly what I gave been saying, as I am not pretending anything. I get nothing out of writing my blog, publishing my book, nor anything else that I have done. I have spent tons of money have asked for nothing in return. I think your constant attacks on survivors, constantly calling them liars, crazy, or any other nasty thing you can come up with, does way more harm. In fact there isn’t one person you have helped. If this is incorrect, please enlighten me. Which individual specifically have you helped? Cause I don’t see that your constant derision helps anyone but you.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 15, 2015 10:33:26 AM PDT
Last edited by the author 5 hours ago
CritThink says:
David, on the concert, I thought I dragged Lori out to it, when she was half-dead. Now you are blaming Lori for going herself using IGDID funds…lol. I really, really hope she is reading this 😉

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 15, 2015 10:40:06 AM PDT
LoessJedi says:
Claiming you call people is NOT THE SAME as saying you were at the conference, but good try twisting it. And the speakers are online, and since you are so good at go ogling things, are you now suggesting that you are incapable of finding out the information?

And now you are claiming I don’t see anyone simply cause you say so. This is typical of your general attitude, if you don’t believe it then it isn’t so. Doesn’t make it fact, it just shows that you make arbitrary comments claiming they are facts simply because you believe it. But again, who I see is is none of your business or concern, nor is how I lead my life. I don’t need your approval nor does anyone else.

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 15, 2015 10:45:23 AM PDT
LoessJedi says:
Lol, it can easily be proved critthink. And she was so half dead that you guys went to a concert on Friday. And I am sure you will make sure she is reading it. Like I care. Other than whine about it, there is nothing you can do about it. And I never said you dragged her out to it. according to you you weren’t there so how can you say what happened one way or another?

Posted on Mar 15, 2015 10:47:35 AM PDT
O’Karma the Lowly Leprechaun says:
David Shurter/LoessJedi says: >>Claiming you call people is NOT THE SAME as saying you were at the conference, but good try twisting it.<< David, you obviously are convinced that I'm a specific person. Out with it. Who are saying I am? Who is it that you think did these things? Your post: Mar 15, 2015 10:51:29 AM PDT LoessJedi says:
People can go to my blog at davidshurter.com to check out the conversation where you claim bigotry against law abiding satanists. you have fought one the platform that pALL SURVIVORS who claim SRA are Lying, like the two children in the UK who you claimed are being coaxed to lie about their abuse. I agree you have never come out and directly claimed to support satanism, but your actions speak loud for themselves. Saying otherwise makes you a liar. But as far as I’m concerned, that goes without saying.

In reply to your post on Mar 15, 2015 10:55:42 AM PDT
O’Karma the Lowly Leprechaun says:
>>And the only proof you offer that critthink isn’t menagerie is because you say so.<< David, do you see how bass-ackward that is? You make something up, and expect everyone else to scramble trying to prove you wrong? No, David. That's now how it works. If you say CT is menagerie, prove it. Prove it or admit that you have no idea, that you're making it up as you go, and that you're spreading misinformation and gossip. (Pretty hypocritical of Pat to encourage your behavior, by the way) Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 15, 2015 10:56:34 AM PDT LoessJedi says:
Lol, I, like everyone else, could not care less who you are. Thinking you are just some deceitful anonymous attacking troll is good enough for me. And besides, you will just argue with me anyway. I have an idea who you are, and it makes me smile. But who that is I’ll keep to myself. like everything about my life, I don’t find it to be any of your business. But it is obvious you believe you are somebody. Of course no one else knows, and more than that, no one cares.

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 15, 2015 11:00:42 AM PDT
LoessJedi says:
I don’t really care. And I don’t see the point in doing so. You are correct, critthink is an anonymous troll. I don’t see why anyone needs to know any more than that. Besides, I am tired of this inane argument. You want to stay anonymous trolls but expect everyone to trust you. I don’t think it will work, but knock yourself out. Who you are is much more important to you than it is to anyone else, so be an anonymous troll. No one is going to argue with you.

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 15, 2015 11:03:23 AM PDT
LoessJedi says:
And no, that isn’t “now how it works.” you don’t have any control over me, and I am not going to run in circles just because you expect me too. No one knows who any of you are, so why should anyone listen or trust you? Your demands to do so are simply not enough.

In reply to your post on Mar 15, 2015 11:10:26 AM PDT
O’Karma the Lowly Leprechaun says:
>>People can go to my blog at davidshurter.com to check out the conversation where you claim bigotry against law abiding satanists. << They can also look right here on Amazon. My words are on pg 8 of this thread: http://www.amazon.com/review/R2IV99L0F7EP89 ____ You don't seem to understand, David, that every time you shoe-horn a real crime (assuming this is such a case) into your SRA conspiracy theory, you're giving the abusers an easy "out". You give them an excuse to fall back on, and you're complicit in defaming a stigmatized group (law-abiding Satanists) due to your own bigotry and prejudice. Stop blaming imaginary murderous cults for the acts of lone individuals, David. ____ And again, on page 10 of the same thread: ____ That's not what I said, David. Please pay attention to what I've actually written: "you're complicit in defaming a stigmatized group (law-abiding Satanists)" You are defaming law-abiding Satanists, who are already a stigmatized group, when you constantly distort facts and purposely spread misinformation. And for what it's worth, you're also harming survivors of abuse and hurting the efforts of real advocates. _____ In reply to your post on Mar 15, 2015 11:17:20 AM PDT O’Karma the Lowly Leprechaun says:
>>I have an idea who you are<< I'm sure it's every bit as wrong as your (and Pat's) last guesses were. In reply to your post on Mar 15, 2015 11:20:48 AM PDT O’Karma the Lowly Leprechaun says:
David Shurter/LoessJedi says: >>I am not going to run in circles just because you expect me too. << Fine, you'll go on being viewed as someone who spreads falsehoods about people and pouts when they demand he either show proof or go away. Your post: Mar 15, 2015 11:20:53 AM PDT LoessJedi says:
So how do you know the specifics of the UK case? You act as if you know the particulars when actually all you have are opinions that you try to assert as facts. I am simply writing about what the children said and what has been reported, but you seem to think you know the details, like that the SRA abuse they claim isn’t real. How would you actually know this, not being part of the investigation? The fact is YOU CANT, and claiming you know more than anyone else is a lie. You are just following your same agenda, and that is to discount all claims of SRA and call all those who claim it liars. They are either liars or are being lead to lie, like can be seen on the link you provided.

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 15, 2015 11:24:24 AM PDT
LoessJedi says:
Lol, of course. This doesn’t come as a surprise. But the fact remains that no one, least of all me, cares who you are. The fact that you are compelled to stay an anonymous troll is enough. And not knowing who you are or anything about you, why would anyone trust you? You could be anybody or anything, and the fact that you want to remain secret says enough.

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 15, 2015 11:29:03 AM PDT
Last edited by you 4 hours ago
LoessJedi says:
Why because an anonymous attacking troll says it is? Again, why would anyone trust you? Not knowing anything about you, HOW COULD THEY POSSIBLY TRUST YOU? and I am not pouting and anyone could guess if I did guess right, there is absolutely nothing stopping you from lying and denying it. Again – why would anyone trust you? Just because you demand they can? And I am not going away. Try as you might, and you will most likely, you are not going to close me down

In reply to your post on Mar 15, 2015 11:35:15 AM PDT
Last edited by the author 4 hours ago
CritThink says:
David, suggestible people can be coaxed to believe all sorts of things. This poor woman went through the same crappy therapy a lot of survivors did. She didn’t lie…she was so suggestible she believed she saw bodies being buried…http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/no-bodies-found-under-barn-where-glenna-mae-breckenridge-says-her-dad-buried-boys-1.2837239 The sad thing is, people will blame her and not the jerks who supported if not created her recollection. I repeat, she is not a liar. SRA dose not exist…memories of SRA are not evidence.

You are the very definition of suggestible. That’s why Pat plays you. When someone can get YOU to apologize after she claims YOU are psychopathic stalker, that is the very definition of suggestibility.

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 15, 2015 11:40:23 AM PDT
LoessJedi says:
Well you would know how to manipulate suggestive people, so it is hard to argue with you. But accounts of SRA are not always false, as much as you would like to claim that. But I find it interesting that both of you claim to know the specifics of a case you are in no way involved with. And contrary to your statement, I am not getting played and just because you say I am doesn’t make it so.

In reply to your post on Mar 15, 2015 11:48:11 AM PDT
Last edited by the author 3 hours ago
CritThink says:
David your “friend” threatened you with a restraining order and said you were a psychopathic stalker…the outcome? YOU apologized to her. SHE should have apologized to you! That is suggestibility in spades.

Oh, and as for my manipulation. My crime? Giving gifts. Let’s see, Pat tried to take your car, called you a psychopath, called Kate a psychopath, threatened you with a restraining order, tossed out Insomniac, teamed up with Kevin Annett….I could go on. I gave out Teddy Bears…so I am a threat? Boy, has she been feeding you BS.

Posted on Mar 15, 2015 12:14:46 PM PDT
O’Karma the Lowly Leprechaun says:
David, why aren’t you and your sister scheduled to present at the conference? Your topic for last year seemed interesting. Is there a reason you’re not on the roster?

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 15, 2015 12:47:28 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
First critthink, karma established this discussion group to talk about me and NOT felicity. And she has apologized to me. And menagerie was the one who gives out stuffed animals, and you have stated you are not menagerie, so I guess I am confused. You claim you aren’t menagerie but Claim you are also handing out stuffed animals, but the only one doing this is menagerie. So can you offer a reason for the discrepancy?

And karma, i am working at this year’s conference, just as I did last year. We have so many incredible, top of their profession speakers that there is no need for me to speak. Not sure why this is such a big deal, or why you are so concerned about out it, but, like usual, it really doesn’t concern you and is really none of your business.

In reply to your post on Mar 15, 2015 1:03:58 PM PDT
Last edited by the author 2 hours ago
CritThink says:
David, notice the question mark after my statement on stuffed animals. This is what you are leveling at Menagerie. This Menagerie person sounds sweet. She did not try to take someone’s car, she does not call people psychopathic, or threaten them with restraining orders. You said a reliable source told you I was Menagerie…the only reliable source would be a person threatened by kindness. And you took her lead and insulted her former IG member. For shame.

Your post: Mar 15, 2015 1:34:45 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
You really are a trip. I really do believe that, for whatever reason, you are obsessed with felicity and honestly, I don’t have one ounce of trust for you. I just feel like you are manipulative, and I just don’t care for you. it is probably due to our exchanges throughout the years, but I just don’t believe anything you tell me and your forced concern is not believable. Your only objective is to talk trash about me and felicity, and I just don’t have any interest in you.

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 15, 2015 1:40:40 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
By the way, have you ever heard of the term “love bombing”? That is what menagerie does. Her gifts don’t come without a price, and she uses het gifts to control those she gives them too. she claims to love women she doesn’t know and hadn’t met, and she keeps them unhealthy by encouraging them to talk baby talk with her. She demands people consider her as some sort of mother with no idea who they even are. I don’t trust love bombers and don’t except gifts from strangers who want to assert such a position in my life.

In reply to your post on Mar 15, 2015 1:47:21 PM PDT
Last edited by the author 2 hours ago
CritThink says:
<>

Wait! Felicity does this on her site by encouraging “littles” to talk baby talk to each other. The pic of kids playing creeps me out. I agree, this kind of stuff is unhealthy. But how do you think Felicity keeps her people under her control? Felicity demands people see her as an owner! She boots anyone out of her babytalk garden who doesn’t listen to her. At least Menagerie gives gifts. Felicity charges to have people put up with her BS!

I can see how Menagerie would be a threat…she offers a better deal. Ha, ha!

Your post: Mar 15, 2015 2:20:58 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
Your obsession about felicity is overwhelming. It is like you live and breath to talk bs about her. it is funny because she spends the majority of her time hosting a conference that promotes healing with survivors, yet, according to you, she does nothing for anyone but herself. That is when you aren’t extolling the virtues of menagerie.

Posted on Mar 15, 2015 2:23:19 PM PDT
CritThink says:
<>

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 15, 2015 2:31:18 PM PDT
Last edited by you 1 hour ago
LoessJedi says:
lol- and yet with all the complaints from a certain group to government officials- no one has found her guilty of any wrong doing. and hosting a three day conference in Seattle isn’t free. It takes money and a lot of work to do so. maybe if menagerie actually tried to help survivors instead of sending them stuff animals, she would find this out. but with all your allegations- Felicity has not ONCE been found to be guilty of anything. And the respect she has from the speakers is amazing. Menagerie and Shadow can only wish they had such accolades on their belt.

In reply to your post on Mar 15, 2015 2:42:09 PM PDT
CritThink says:
So David, if Felicity believes your tale, why aren’t you talking SRA and MKUltra at the conference? I mean why is she censoring such a good friend?

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 15, 2015 2:50:13 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
AGAIN, I am going to be working at the conference helping and she has an incredible venue this year. I do not feel the need to speak- and will be too busy helping make sure the conference goes off well. She has done videos with me- and since it is me, and I don’t feel like I am being censored, I don’t understand your point. I, like so many others, will enjoy hearing the speakers talk. You guys want to assert that it is all about me, but no one but you are claiming this. It isn’t, nor has it ever been, solely about me. And I spoke to a myriad of people last time, it isn’t like I was censored. Just because I am not on the venue doesn’t mean I am unable to talk to people. This is, yet again, just another manipulation to try and make Felicity look bad. As far as I know- there are NO survivor stories being presented. So I am not sure what your issue is. But regardless, the issue is yours and yours alone.

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 15, 2015 2:52:00 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
and what does that have to do with anything i posted last? She hasn’t been found guilty of ANYTHING you have asserted about her- so now you twist things around and try to suggest I should be angry at not speaking at the conference. And Felicity and I are friends, and she DOES completely believe me. Just because I am not speaking at the conference doesn’t mean otherwise.

Posted on Mar 15, 2015 3:05:43 PM PDT
Last edited by the author 46 minutes ago
CritThink says:
<> Lol, she threatens you with a restraining order, calls you a psychotic stalker and *I* am trying to maker HER look bad! Bawahaha. This is outrageous.

Your post: Mar 15, 2015 3:16:01 PM PDT
Last edited by you 35 minutes ago
LoessJedi says:
Funny, it seems you like to use other people to justify your own behavior. Contrary to what you want to assert, other people’s behavior doesn’t negate your own. But since you can’t seem to post anything that doesn’t have to do with felicity, you are obviously obsessesd with her. We resolved our differences, and since you and I are in NO WAY friends, I am not sure why you feel the need to go on and on about it. In fact, I don’t see where it is any of your concern. You are just trying to interject yourself in matters that in no way concern you nor is any of your business. Why who knows. But since it is not an issue between us, I don’t see why you seem so eager to get involved.

Your post: Mar 15, 2015 3:17:43 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
It seems petty and intrusive to me actually.

In reply to your post on Mar 15, 2015 3:22:58 PM PDT
CritThink says:
Her manipulation is deplorable. You have not named one thing close to what Felicity has done to MANY FORMER IG members, not one, with Menagerie…and yet people are supposed to hate Menagerie. Why? Because she is transgender? Because she gives gifts? When has she even come close to the crap Felicity pulls over and over again?

Felicity has you hating a perfectly nice person it sounds like, for no reason at all other than she hates her…she is the ultimate bully.

Your post: Mar 15, 2015 3:36:56 PM PDT
Last edited by you 14 minutes ago
LoessJedi says:
Lol whatever. Again, it seems strange you are so bent on defending menagerie. A woman who manipulated shadow to try and take ivory garden from felicity instead of doing her own work and setting up a company for herself. No one, absolutely no one, wants to set up a company just to have some stranger try to manipulate others to take it away from them. And menagerie was full of sneers and gossip when I met it. Transgendered doesn’t have anything to do with it, although even though it tries to look like a woman, it is aggressive like a man. not to mention manipulative. This crusade you have of extolling the virtues of someone you claim you have never met is just too weird for words. Why do you care so much? Unless you are closer than you want known. I personally am still convinced you are one in the same, despite all your denials. Why would you actively defend someone you don’t know nor have ever met? You seem as equally obsessed talking menagerie up as you do talking felicity down. it is weird.

In reply to your post on Mar 15, 2015 3:51:52 PM PDT
CritThink says:
Yes, yes, David, I am the Transgender Illuminati. Today I overthrow Felicity, tomorrow the world!

Now Menagerie is trying to take IG from Felicity. Wait a minute, didn’t she accuse Kate of that? Before long she’ll be accusing the ISSTD of it. Geeze, you guys love to spin conspiracies don’t you?

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 15, 2015 3:55:45 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
where did anyone say anything about the Illuminati? It seems you just pulled that out of nowhere.

and again- here you are- defending Menagerie. It is weird.

and I don’t know about Kate- but if it is true- that is where Menagerie and Shadow got the idea. I mean, it isn’t like Shadow even graduated from high school- so she had to copy the idea from someone

and if you are as successful of overthrowing the world as you have been Felicity- the world has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to worry about. Esp. considering you have been an abject failure in doing so.

CritThink says:
Newsflash…Felicity can’t own her “company.” So I don’t know how you get the idea anything she does not own can be taken away from her.

In reply to your post on Mar 15, 2015 4:51:11 PM PDT
O’Karma the Lowly Leprechaun says:
David Shurter/LoessJedi says: >>I personally am still convinced you are one in the same,<< Question: Why would Menagerie have left a negative review of 22 Faces way back in August 2012? You seriously can't work it out that CT can't possibly be this Menagerie? Your post: Mar 15, 2015 5:56:25 PM PDT LoessJedi says:
Lol karma, your deception absolutely knows no bounds. Anyone can leave a book review as anyone. so yes, it is possible. Now the question really is, can she read it?

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 15, 2015 6:01:04 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
Lol NOW. But back then, when it was just a website, it could have easily been taken from her. But for not being menagerie, you sure do know a lot about what has gone on with ivory garden. It just became a charity organization actually. So now, esp since none of you are involved, then no.

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 15, 2015 6:02:32 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
And contrary to karma’s defense of you, much of what you have talked about – like Kate, CAN NOT be found on the Web.

In reply to your post on Mar 15, 2015 6:17:02 PM PDT
Last edited by the author 40 minutes ago
CritThink says:
Ha, Felicity is using you again? Lol, did you just email her about this, didn’t you? You wouldn’t know Kate from anyone, so how do you know what I know and how I found out? Flee all in a titter? Yeah, yeah…Felicity and Kate have quite the little history, and Insomniac, and Tylas and Lori, and Heather….and… Women leaves quite a trail of destruction in her wake and then goes around “warning” people. Cut me a break!

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 15, 2015 6:40:54 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
Ummm no actually, I haven’t emailed her. I assumed all your bs was aimed to get to her and I don’t see ANY reason to triangulate between you two. You obviously have a huge chip on your shoulder, and she could not care less about you, and so I don’t see a reason to share your rants. However, you know an inordinate amount of info that you can’t find on the Web, so, since you are so involved, one has to question how. Not that anyone has a reason to believe anything you say – as your constant denial is expected. I really don’t care – the new board doesn’t seem to have the issues all of them had. Of course NONE of them are connected to you, so that could be the reason why.

In reply to your post on Mar 15, 2015 6:50:40 PM PDT
CritThink says:
Lol, did you actually Google Kate, Felicity and nothing came up? OMG, I am laughing my ass off.

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 15, 2015 6:55:53 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
Funny, if you are laughing so hard, why are being so disagreeable. Happy people who are secure in themselves don’t act like you do. If you are so much more superior, why don’t you try to do 1/2 of what felicity is doing. I mean she has more to do than hang on amazon and trash people. Obviously none of you do.

In reply to your post on Mar 15, 2015 7:02:32 PM PDT
CritThink says:
Please spare me the psychotherapy…I am still laughing.

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 15, 2015 7:05:40 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
I am sure you are. No doubt. You find amusement in trying to hurt others, and no one has any doubt about this. Of course no one cares what you have to say- which is probably why you feel such a need to lash out at people who are clearly more superior to you.

Maybe you should consider psychotherapy- it might make you happier. It is obvious that you aren’t all that happy.

In reply to your post on Mar 15, 2015 7:10:11 PM PDT
Last edited by the author 23 minutes ago
CritThink says:
<> Christ, you don’t even know who I am much less what people think of me. But no one has any doubt! You just make not only your reality up but everyone else’s…even when you admit you don’t have a clue who you are talking about! Or *to* or *for* in your case…as if you spoke for everyone.

<>…the only thing that is obvious to you is your thoughts…which you think encompass everyone else’s…Eye yi, yi!

Your post: Mar 15, 2015 7:28:45 PM PDT
Last edited by you 4 minutes ago
LoessJedi says:
People can judge what you are like by your replies in here. I think it is funny that you dance around thinking no one can figure you out when it is obvious to anyone who reads this exchange that you are jealous of felicity, so much so that you talk about her constantly even though she hasn’t been on amazon for a year now, give or take. You are so invested in her that you are hoping I run to her and tell her what you said, which I’m not. Your delusion is that people care what you think, even though you are nothing but an anonymous attack troll who feels everyone is doting on everything you say, when in reality no one is. Felicity has the respect of professionals, which obviously makes you angry since you apparently do not, and you do your best to try and minimize her even when you know she is totally unaware of what you are saying. More than that, she doesn’t care. You claim to be laughing but your desperate attacks that fall on deaf ears say more than your online expressions that present you as a donkey. She is hosting a second conference while you are on amazon complaining about her- and since you won’t list any of your accomplishments, people are left with the assumption that you have none. You can guffaw about this all you want, but the fact that you don’t find this meaningful can only be troubling for others. But you are making people laugh, although it is at you rather than with you.

CritThink says:
<>…oh, yeah, like this guy?

http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfairpark/2008/08/colin_ross_has_an_eyebeam_of_e.php

How about when he tried to help a poor serial rapist get back out on the streets? (What a statement the both of them are when it comes to protecting “survivors.” )

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/witness/201110/multiple-personality-excluded-in-twilight-rapist-insanity-case

Your post: Mar 15, 2015 9:12:22 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
Lol but that still lacks any mention of YOUR accomplishments. One has to conclude you don’t have any, which is why you feel compelled to rip on others.

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 15, 2015 9:18:29 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
Please feel free to show that what you do is any better. although I have a feeling you can’t and will do nothing but rip on others in order to keep people from realizing that you really haven’t accomplished squat in your life, which is why you do your best to dissolve on others who have.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 16, 2015 8:35:59 AM PDT
O’Murphy says:
[You are ignoring this customer’s posts. Hide post again. (Show all ignored posts)]
O’Karma, If David was upstanding, he would allow comments on his website. As it stands, he is nothing more than a hack, a troll, and a ranter. He doesn’t have the guts to open his rants to comments. He’d have to take responsibility for his words and actions.

O’Murphy says:
[You are ignoring this customer’s posts. Hide post again. (Show all ignored posts)]
right. David, you are helping on the conference until you and Pat have an argument. Then you attack each other which is delightfully entertaining.

Or, you will get booted to the curb again,

Or, you will write posts on your blog disparaging Pat

You are predictable, Sir.

O’Murphy says:
[You are ignoring this customer’s posts. Hide post again. (Show all ignored posts)]
it’s a shame how Pat is forcing people to leave her board if they want to also go to Lori and Kate’s board.

What is she so scared of? There are usually less than 10 people on her site at any given time. Right, that sounds like a flourishing group. lol

You can’t force people how to think and act before they wakeup and go elsewhere. Where? To Lori and Kate

O’Murphy says:

Posted on Mar 15, 2015 7:28:45 PM PDT
Last edited by the author 16 hours ago
LoessJedi says:
People can judge what you are like by your replies in here.

lollololo Then you are in deep-doo doo Mr. Shurter. You are a two-faced liar
on this book review and in what you write. Fact, sir. Stick to facts – RE: your book. I could not bear you go over the millions of pseudo-facts you delusionally think you have here.

Posted on Mar 16, 2015 12:11:19 PM PDT
O’Karma the Lowly Leprechaun says:
Hello, O’Murphy! A credit to the old sod, ye are!

A lot of the posts from the original thread were deleted, but here’s a recap:

–David Shurter posts all kinds of personal info and Ivory Garden information on his blog

— he forgets he posted it

— he becomes confused and paranoid, wondering out loud how everyone “knows so much” about the goings on at IG

Comedy gold, and it’s bound to keep getting better.

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 16, 2015 12:44:15 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
Lol, lots of YOUR posts were removed. And it wasn’t even me who complained. I guess amazon or someone didn’t appreciate your attacks or the way you phrased those attacks. But no worries, I am keeping every post made in here.

Your post: Mar 16, 2015 12:49:25 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
And just because I question how you know intimate details about ivory garden doesn’t make me paranoid, it just means that I believe you are WAY MORE INVOLVED than you want people to think. You guys are actively out to discredit and silence survivors, and you guys are much more involved than you would like people to think. Much more than just reviewing books on amazon anyway. Esp. Considering with all your posts, not once have you mentioned what is in my book. The only thing you have been concerned about is slamming me personally. Me and felicity, who hasn’t been on amazon for over a year.

O’Karma the Lowly Leprechaun says:
>>You guys are actively out to discredit and silence survivors<< No, not survivors. Frauds and charlatans. Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 16, 2015 1:38:25 PM PDT LoessJedi says:
Which, by your actions, means every survivor who claims SRA, including the two children in the UK who you have stated, without being involved in any way, are being coached to lie about their abuse. It is interesting that you never once mention the events surrounding Omaha but rather argue about the arguments I have had with you having to defend myself. Anyone and everyone who claims SRA is a liar as far as you are concerned.

O’Karma the Lowly Leprechaun says:
David Shurter says: >>having to defend myself<< The events surrounding Omaha are irrelevant, since there's no evidence, not even the tiniest little bit, that you had any part in them. The onus is on *you*, David, to show proof that you, personally, were involved in these things. You can't, and you've been called out on it repeatedly, and you respond by calling people Satanists and pedophiles. No advocate would behave that way, David. You actually hinder the efforts of real advocates, and I suspect that on some level, you know this. Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 16, 2015 2:41:22 PM PDT LoessJedi says:
Well good thing my sis has agreed to go on the radio with me tomorrow and tell her side of the story- it isn’t like she wasn’t involved as well. It isn’t as if she hasn’t done this before- but Ill be sure to post the link after the interview is done. Just because you have denied my involvement, like Peter Citron being my mother’s best friend, or Alan Baer being involved with my life until he died, doesn’t change the facts that they were.

I am sure that after my sis goes public assuring people that we WERE in involved- your reaction will be to call her a liar as well. But that is a good try- avoiding what I have said about Omaha. Exactly what I have lied about concerning Omaha? And try to be specific so that I can deal with your SPECIFIC concerns accordingly. Saying I am lying about everything won’t cut it.

But my sis and I were asked to be interviewed just this morning. And we will be doing the show tomorrow morning, so claiming that I am not involved won’t work- and is a lie all in of itself.

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 16, 2015 2:42:56 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
and I never called you pedophiles, although I think that is closer to the truth than what even I believe, but rather I called you the pedophile protection squad. Going against every survivor and claiming that the accused are innocent until proven guilty- therefore all who claim it should be considered liars until proven otherwise- is pretty much why I call you that.

CritThink says:
David, I told you survivors are not liars…a great many have gotten god awful therapy.

In your case, I’m not sure though. You seem to rewrite your memories daily.

I have to show you what’s on YOUR OWN BLOG, that you swear you never wrote. What up wit dat?

And yet you want people to see you as credible when you can’t even remember your own ideas or words…and we aren’t talking years here.

Your post: Mar 16, 2015 7:56:55 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
Lol whatever critthink. There are close to a thousand posts on there and the blog is three years old. Sorry if I don’t remember everything I have said about you throughout the years. It isn’t like you are all that memorable.

So are you suggesting that what my sis is going to say is all due to bad therapy? How incredibly dismissive of you. She graduated top of her class with her masters in social work and we both are gonna be on the radio, so trying to say that what she is going to talk about is due to bad therapy is ridiculous. But good try.

But it is interesting that you will use whatever excuse you can to dismiss us. Of course you don’t have a clue who wither of us are, so your opinions about us are completely worthless. All they are is your opinions, and they aren’t educated at that.

In reply to your post on Mar 16, 2015 8:18:59 PM PDT
Last edited by the author 3 hours ago
CritThink says:
David, let me teach you a little thing about reality. It’s not made from anecdotes! And credentials mean nothing. John Mack was a Harvard Professor. He believed in alien abductions. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_E._Mack

You can’t go about claiming impossible things even if you believe them. Reality is not about belief or claims…it’s about facts! http://doubtfulnews.com/2015/03/icke-sued-settles-libel-action-against-popular-book/

As for your blog…I’ve quoted it correctly weeks after a post…that YOU DON’T REMEMBER WRITING…and you’ve called me a liar…until I show you screen shots. Then you change the subject. Re-read. WE ARE NOT TALKING YEARS HERE. You can’t remember what you said last week. You change your opinion so much it’s mindboggling. First you believe in this, than that, and FLee is friend, than she is ripping survivors off and an meth addict, than she is back to good again. Your words, not mine….all of them.

Your post: Mar 16, 2015 8:32:06 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
I have never changed my opinion about you guys. And I am with friends seeing andrea gibson in seattle right now so I don’t have the time to argue with you tonight. but we will think of you tomorrow when we are on the radio. Seems that people are interested in what we have to say, and have no idea you even exist, so no worries.

Lol you belittle others accomplishments while having none of your own. So excuse me if I could not care less what you have to say.

Posted on Mar 16, 2015 8:39:23 PM PDT
CritThink says:
Why don’t you show Andrea how you slammed a transgender-ed woman…I’m sure she’ll high five you.

Your post: Mar 16, 2015 8:51:57 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
Whatever. I slammed you. If you don’t like it, go whine to someone else. I’m not interested.

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 16, 2015 9:00:10 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
And you are not a woman. You are a man in a dress. Anyone who looks at you can see that.

In reply to your post on Mar 16, 2015 9:56:45 PM PDT
CritThink says:
yeah, like I say, go tell a GLBT activist about the kind of hate you spew toward transgenders. Although, Felicity is behind it, so maybe you should give Andrea her name so she can write a slam poem about women who trash GLBT folk at their “safe” conferences.

Your post: Mar 16, 2015 10:16:29 PM PDT
Last edited by you 1 hour ago
LoessJedi says:
Only you dude. You manipulate people acting aggressive like a man but still want the respect of a woman. I don’t have issues with Transgendered people, I have issues with you. you use your “condition” as a weapon and I have absolutely no respect for someone who does such. You give the LGBT community a bad wrap, as others adversely judge the community because of people like you. And stop trying to add felicity to the mix, because it is just another example of how you use and manipulate others with your poor perceived sexuality. Your issues are yours, and I take issue with your actions. Just because you claim you should be respected because you are in the LGBT community, I don’t feel the same. I feel that respect is earned. And I find you severely lacking in that department. And contrary to what you think, you are not the cornerstone of the LGBT community. So go manipulate someone else, cause just because I find you lacking doesn’t mean I find others the same. if you don’t like this, I suggest you tell one of the stuffed animals you like to use to love bomb others with. They care much more than I do. And probably more than everyone else. Being in the LGBT community doesn’t entitle you to respect. Being a real human being does. So go attack someone who can’t fight back, because being gay for my 48 years isn’t something that defines me. My strength against adversity and being real to myself does. You obviously can’t say the same.

O’Karma the Lowly Leprechaun says:
David Shurter/LoessJedi says: >>And I am with friends seeing andrea gibson in seattle right now so I don’t have the time to argue with you tonight. << David, a few things: 1] I understand, very well, the desire to contribute something meaningful to the world and to your community. I don't begrudge you, Pat, or anyone, that opportunity 2] You and Pat squander that opportunity to do good when you slander and defame people, when you're so ignorant and forgetful of your own words you accuse others of "knowing" things that they shouldn't (and then act above it all when they point out that it's *your* error) 3] You and Pat are a detriment to real advocates when you take this petty attitude and use your opportunities as a bludgeoning tool And finally, since you admit that you have no idea who any of us are (the only honest thing you ever say, it seems), you have no way of knowing what we are, or aren't, accomplishing. Certainly, when you and Pat were convinced that we were Debbie Nathan or E. Loftus or the various other people you imagined you were corresponding with, it was foolish to say that we (well, they) were "nobodies" who had accomplished nothing. Don't you see how foolish the both of you look when bounce back and forth between mutually exclusive positions and make such ridiculous claims? 1 new post since your last visit Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 17, 2015 8:51:28 AM PDT LoessJedi says:
So go ahead- list your accomplishments. In fact, just name ONE.

You have done nothing but attack on Amazon- and then want to present yourself as victims. It is sickening in my opinion. And no- no one knows who you are. You have made quite sure of that. You take pot shots from the shadows and the expect everyone to respect your opinionated attacks just because you say them.

And for not begrudging us the opportunity to do something in the world- you all sure have tried your best to make sure it doesn’t happen.

You are dishonest Karma, and again- Pat hasn’t been in here for almost a year- and STILL you are doing your best to trash her. This is INDICATIVE of your every action in here. NOT ONCE have you EVER said anything nice about us in here- everything you write is trash talk, and it gets old. Then we respond, or react, you claim foul and complain that we are slandering and defaming you.

So you are right- you do have an accomplishment- as I have never seen more aggressive “victims” than your group.

Posted on Mar 17, 2015 8:59:47 AM PDT
O’Karma the Lowly Leprechaun says:
David Shurter/LoessJedi says: >>So go ahead- list your accomplishments. In fact, just name ONE.<< We've come full circle, David. This is, and will always be the difference between you and Pat, and the rest of the critics here -- we aren't here to advertise our accomplishments or talk about ourselves 24/7. This entire thread exists because you can't bring yourself to *stop* talking about yourself, and desperately trying to focus on the individuals instead discussing the book, 22 Faces. Or Rabbit Hole, for that matter. When people point out valid problems with your story, instead of addressing those, you vilify the person pointing out the many problems with narrative. And this is why you and Pat are not, and will never be, advocates for the abused. 1 new post since your last visit Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 17, 2015 9:10:42 AM PDT LoessJedi says:
Again- you don’t answer the questions with anything but an attack. And you have already said- with no proof, that I was not involved with events in Omaha and yet my older sister has come in here and said I was most definitely was.

You just answered with yet ANOTHER attack. You totally dismiss what I have said and just do your best to engage in more attacks and criticisms. Both Pat and I have a history of trying to help people- and your only history- judging by your actions in here- and you last post- is to attack those efforts.

And of course you don’t talk about yourselves. YOU DO EVERYTHING YOU CAN TO MAKE SURE NO ONE KNOWS WHO YOU ARE. I mean- you go on and on about how know one knows anything about you, and yet you demand that people respect you. Why would that happen when no one knows who you are? You are just an anonymous attack troll who dances around like some sort of troll, laughing that no one knows you. You ALWAYS side step any question posed at you, and ALWAYS offer an attack instead.

I was not the one who set up this thread. And on 22 Faces, you talk about me incessantly, vilifying my every move, and then when I respond- you claim all I can do it talk about myself. It is ridiculous- and your game is set up as one only you can win. If I don’t respond, I agree with the nasty things you are saying about me, if I DO respond- I am only talking about myself. And yet anyone who reads the comments on 22 Faces or looks at the posts in here- it is OBVIOUS that your focus is about talking BS about me.

You are deceptive, and this is not in question. EVERYTHING you say is a criticism and an attack, and your issue is that I don’t just go away like you have done to everyone else. But I find your comments AS A WHOLE to be nothing more than a disservice to those who are trying to help survivors.

But if you are helping survivors, FEEL FREE TO SHOW AN EXAMPLE. Just one. But you can’t, and contrary to your opinion- your constant attacks on us in here is helping no one but yourselves.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 17, 2015 9:10:44 AM PDT
CritThink says:
So true Karma…to these people the only thing that matters is subjectivity and ego.

If they make a false claim and you question it, it’s all about THEM. You don’t know them…they have secret knowledge.
Like Judy Byington and her secret dealings with the UT AG’s office. A claim that blew up in her face but she then turned around and said, oh, it’s so secret I can’t tell you.

You just replied with a later post

1 new post since your last visit
Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 17, 2015 9:16:06 AM PDT
LoessJedi says:
Funny- I haven’t spoken to Judy for over a year now. And I am not responsible for what she does or does not do. But it is interesting how you equate us all together- as an attempt to discredit ALL of us in one fell swoop.

Judy, Pat, and I all act in conjunction with each other- like the BORG. But your group- you are all just individuals working independently of each other. Funny how it works one way for some but not for others- namely you. Even though anyone can see that you are all working in conjunction with each other.

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 17, 2015 9:18:14 AM PDT
LoessJedi says:
and do you really think that your postings and attitudes are devoid of ego? REALLY? I have never met such a self impressed group of trolls in my life, who are convinced they know more about everything else than anyone else. As far as your group is concerned there is no one out there who knows more who are as intelligent as your group.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 17, 2015 9:10:44 AM PDT
CritThink says:
So true Karma…to these people the only thing that matters is subjectivity and ego.

If they make a false claim and you question it, it’s all about THEM. You don’t know them…they have secret knowledge.
Like Judy Byington and her secret dealings with the UT AG’s office. A claim that blew up in her face but she then turned around and said, oh, it’s so secret I can’t tell you.

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 17, 2015 9:16:06 AM PDT
LoessJedi says:
Funny- I haven’t spoken to Judy for over a year now. And I am not responsible for what she does or does not do. But it is interesting how you equate us all together- as an attempt to discredit ALL of us in one fell swoop.

Judy, Pat, and I all act in conjunction with each other- like the BORG. But your group- you are all just individuals working independently of each other. Funny how it works one way for some but not for others- namely you. Even though anyone can see that you are all working in conjunction with each other.

Last edited by you 1 hour ago
LoessJedi says:
and do you really think that your postings and attitudes are devoid of ego? REALLY? I have never met such a self impressed group of trolls in my life, who are convinced they know more about everything else than anyone else. As far as your group is concerned there is no one out there who knows more who are as intelligent as your group.

In reply to your post on Mar 17, 2015 9:49:11 AM PDT
CritThink says:
Dave, we ask for facts and don’t publish our names.

You make impossible claims and can’t get your names or your little poodle projects out enough. (Too bad Felicity was bounced from the New York Times for trying to promote her silly conference.)

You start every remark with “I” just like Felicity…as if her personal experience mattered. Facts, dude, facts, not stories. Corroboration beyond people saying stuff.

Your post: Mar 17, 2015 10:27:06 AM PDT
You edited this post
LoessJedi says:
You don’t offer facts, you offer opinions. And they are used solely to attack. I don’t think you have ever asked a question that wasn’t meant to appear to be an opinion.

You are under the assumption that personal experience isn’t valid. I really don’t think others would agree with you. I could say that I ate a ham sandwich yesterday, but just cause I can’t prove it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. You are funny- you offer no facts, only opinions, and then claim they are valid.

There are plenty of facts surrounding Omaha, and my sister corroborates what I have said. Just because you, WHO ARE NOT INVOLVED AND NEVER HAVE BEEN, chose to assume you know more than we do, doesn’t make it a fact. And Gary Caradori had PLENTY of proof about Omaha. Of course- he was just a prosecuting attorney. Of course you would know more than what he did.

and besides- WHY WOULD ANYONE FEEL THE NEED TO PROVE ANYTHING TO A BUNCH OF ONLINE ANONYMOUS TROLLS WHO CONSTANTLY ATTACK? You feel important- but no one concurs with you.

Or so you would like people to believe.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 17, 2015 9:10:44 AM PDT
CritThink says:
So true Karma…to these people the only thing that matters is subjectivity and ego.

If they make a false claim and you question it, it’s all about THEM. You don’t know them…they have secret knowledge.
Like Judy Byington and her secret dealings with the UT AG’s office. A claim that blew up in her face but she then turned around and said, oh, it’s so secret I can’t tell you.

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 17, 2015 9:16:06 AM PDT
LoessJedi says:
Funny- I haven’t spoken to Judy for over a year now. And I am not responsible for what she does or does not do. But it is interesting how you equate us all together- as an attempt to discredit ALL of us in one fell swoop.

Judy, Pat, and I all act in conjunction with each other- like the BORG. But your group- you are all just individuals working independently of each other. Funny how it works one way for some but not for others- namely you. Even though anyone can see that you are all working in conjunction with each other.

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 17, 2015 9:18:14 AM PDT
Last edited by you 1 hour ago
LoessJedi says:
and do you really think that your postings and attitudes are devoid of ego? REALLY? I have never met such a self impressed group of trolls in my life, who are convinced they know more about everything else than anyone else. As far as your group is concerned there is no one out there who knows more who are as intelligent as your group.

In reply to your post on Mar 17, 2015 9:49:11 AM PDT
CritThink says:
Dave, we ask for facts and don’t publish our names.

You make impossible claims and can’t get your names or your little poodle projects out enough. (Too bad Felicity was bounced from the New York Times for trying to promote her silly conference.)

You start every remark with “I” just like Felicity…as if her personal experience mattered. Facts, dude, facts, not stories. Corroboration beyond people saying stuff.

Your post: Mar 17, 2015 10:27:06 AM PDT
Last edited by you 6 minutes ago
LoessJedi says:
You don’t offer facts, you offer opinions. And they are used solely to attack. I don’t think you have ever asked a question that wasn’t meant to appear to be an opinion.

You are under the assumption that personal experience isn’t valid. I really don’t think others would agree with you. I could say that I ate a ham sandwich yesterday, but just cause I can’t prove it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. You are funny- you offer no facts, only opinions, and then claim they are valid.

There are plenty of facts surrounding Omaha, and my sister corroborates what I have said. Just because you, WHO ARE NOT INVOLVED AND NEVER HAVE BEEN, chose to assume you know more than we do, doesn’t make it a fact. And Gary Caradori had PLENTY of proof about Omaha. Of course- he was just a prosecuting attorney. Of course you would know more than what he did.

and besides- WHY WOULD ANYONE FEEL THE NEED TO PROVE ANYTHING TO A BUNCH OF ONLINE ANONYMOUS TROLLS WHO CONSTANTLY ATTACK? You feel important- but no one concurs with you.

Or so you would like people to believe.

In reply to your post on Mar 17, 2015 10:28:30 AM PDT
Last edited by the author 2 minutes ago
CritThink says:
And I must say, it’s interesting that you interpret us as knowing more than anyone else. I don’t see the world that way…but apparently you do. You are caught in mindframes of superiority and inferiority…I just want people to substantiate claims and not con other people into their little businesses.

(oh, by the way, hi Felicity.)

2 new posts since your last visit
In reply to your post on Mar 17, 2015 10:31:07 AM PDT
CritThink says:
David, you got it backwards. If you claim you were a ham sandwich YOU are the one making the claim. YOU are responsible for backing it up with fact or otherwise it is opinion. I AM not responsible for disproving your crazy. That’s how evidence works…in courts or law or journals of science, you have to offer evidence. In delusion, you do not.

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 17, 2015 10:34:32 AM PDT
LoessJedi says:
I certainly even suggest you know more than anyone else. I said YOU THINK YOU KNOW MORE THAN ANYONE ELSE. Goodness, do you ever get tired of trying to twist things? And then you demand that people respect you. Of course you don’t offer the same.

Yeah- sending stuffed animals to mentally ill women and encouraging them to talk baby talk isn’t a con at all. What a joke.

But again- since I have stated OVER AND OVER that all your side has are OPINIONS, and uneducated and manipulative at that- I do not think that you are superior in any way, shape, or form. Anyone who has read what I have said to you can see that. If anything, I just think you are game players. And NOT GOOD ONES AT THAT. You just like to argue and act superior. but just cause you believe that does NOT make it so.

LoessJedi says:
You aren’t responsible for ANYTHING. No one cares about you. So why would I concern myself whether you believe I ate a ham sandwich or not? This is neither a court of law, or a journal of science. No one CARES what you believe, other than you. And I do not feel any need to prove or disprove anything to you, esp. since you have the issues that you have and are dedicated to your perceived task of discrediting me. YOU care, I on the other hand, do not. And actually- no one else cares what you think either. If they did- you wouldnt be in here constantly trying to disprove people who claim childhood sexual abuse. It is YOU who seems deluded. Why I should I give one thought to what you believe? I have already made it quite clear that I think you are manipulative.

Last edited by the author 1 hour ago
CritThink says:
LOL, you claim to know what I think.

zzzzzzzz….we are back to I am transgender. Lol, if you only knew how far you are from the spectrum on that one. You guys are too funny….I know about IG so I can only be your worst enemy. HA! HA! Many people know what sham IG is…both inside and outside of the org. The cool thing is, people with first hand knowlege of it are telling others about it. How come nobody comes here to defend Felicity anymore….Felicity used to be able to summon her little army…but her army is now her enemy.

You are like the people who equate science with opinion. There is no evidence of SRA and that’s a fact.

In reply to your post on Mar 17, 2015 11:32:21 AM PDT
Last edited by the author 27 minutes ago
CritThink says:
For the record, I never said you weren’t abused. You had a shitty childhood. But SRA is not part of it just as it was not part of thousands of claims. There is no evidence Wide-scale SRA exists. I repeat, there is no evidence wide-scale SRA has ever existed.

LoessJedi says:
well at least you admit that thousands of people have claimed SRA abuse, so I can hardly considered to be the only one making such claims. The common denominator in the thousands of claims of SRA abuse is there has been a systematic lack of investigation into those claims. And those who have made then generally end up dead, like Gary Caradori- Omaha’s prosecuting attorney- or attacked with an attempt to discredit them- like what is happening to every survivor who comes forward on amazon.

Here are some interesting articles that prove my point…

http://www.sott.net/article/288366-Paedophile-Ring-whistleblower-Melanie-Shaw-sentenced-without-evidence

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2831025/Cameron-attacked-sexual-abuse-victims-calling-claims-Home-Office-cover-conspiracy-theory.html

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/sociopol_tavistock04a.htm

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/vip-paedophile-scandal-police-pinpoint-5336701

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11474841/IPCC-announces-probe-into-claims-Met-Police-covered-up-boys-murder.html

http://timetostartcaring.com/a-list-of-members-of-parliament-convicted-of-sex-offences/

http://latest.com/2015/03/it-is-2015-and-children-are-still-being-sold-into-slavery-and-abused-around-the-world/

but at least you are honest to admit I and my sister are far from the only ones who have claimed SRA abuse.

CritThink says:
Not true. Innocent people have been jailed after bogus investigations. Claiming SRA and evidence of it are not the same.

Your articles prove nothing. The UK system allows people to be jailed for bizarre claims like SRA. The US justice system was there years ago…now they are realizing they have jailed innocent people.

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2014/01/fran_and_dan_keller_freed_two_of_the_last_victims_of_satanic_ritual_abuse.html

Claiming is not FACT! I can claim to be Joan of Arc…that does not make it true.

http://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/local/2015/03/06/dna-testing-may-clear-duo-satanic-murder-meade-county/24517603/

And by the way, those links are not all SRA….nice try, though.

You don’t seem to know the difference between a reliable source and someone’s conspiracy blog. It’s all the same to you, which frankly, I find a bit sad.

LoessJedi says:
oh, I see. so those who have been jailed for abuse are the victims, and all the survivors are liars. Thousands of people who you claim have reported such abuse are all liars. I see. So thousands of people have conspired to make such claims, and all those who have been accused are the victims of such rampant conspiracies.

And you are actually going to claim that the American judicial system is superior to all others. Interesting. So unless an American court of law says so- it isn’t real cause all other legal systems around the world are inferior. Is that your contention?

and if some have been convicted in a court of law by a jury of their peers unjustly- then it makes ALL survivors claiming such abuse liars? Is this what you are saying? Lets just be clear here.

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 17, 2015 12:27:24 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
so those who claimed that the Catholic church abused them were all liars? I mean, the church vehemently denied such allegations. and for years they were believed. And now we know otherwise. So how does that work?

LoessJedi says:
Here here is an article talking about childhood sex abuse and it’s cover up from the Huffington Post. Is this a reputable paper?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20150317/eu–britain-child-abuse/?utm_hp_ref=world&ir=world

LoessJedi says:
How about this link- that shows the New York Times reporting on the Franklin Cover Up?

http://www.voxfux.com/features/bush_child_sex_coverup/franklin.htm

not to mention listing the Conspiracy of Silence, where people directly involved with the investigation claimed that there was a cover up.

LoessJedi says:
or maybe the Washington Post is a conspiracy blog….

http://educate-yourself.org/tg/franklincoverupexcerptwashtimesphoto.shtml

I guess anyone who publishes arguments that disagree with you are conspiracy posts?
Edit this post | Permalink

CritThink says:
David, you just go off on a tangent.

You made false claims…and then you go on to say something I never claimed. You imagine things about people and that becomes your fact. You jump form what false claim to another using things like “you think”…introduce things with “your contention” about subjects I never discussed. Stick to what I post not what you imagine.

You claimed the NYT endorsed your position and put up a cult leader’s rag. The paper you sourced said just the opposite of what you said. Oh, and for the record, the Washington Times which you think is so credible is also very anti-gay. They were sponsors of NOM….I trust I don’t have to spell out who NOM is. http://mediamatters.org/blog/2014/06/18/washington-times-is-an-unofficial-sponsor-of-th/199789

1 new post since your last visit
Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 17, 2015 1:17:02 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
oh- so anyone who disagrees with homosexuality isn’t reputable? and I am sticking to what was reported, not your so called facts. and I think that those who don’t agree with homosexuality being called non reputable would have something to say about it. Just because I or you might disagree with their opinions doesn’t make them any more or less reputable. But I can see why you fight against Omaha so hard- because it was centered in the gay world.

and you claim that thousands of people have made allegations of SRA and then quickly change the subject when I point it out. Since there are books and all kinds of news reports out about Franklin, I hardly made things up. And claiming that the Bush White House and the American government is transparent is ludicrous. Considering that reports are coming out all the time how the media lies to the people, I am not sure who you are trying to convince that our media doesn’t report what they are told to report.

It is funny that you claim thousands of people are involved with a conspiracy- and then claim that such conspiracies don’t exist. Which one is it? Cause they either exist- or they don’t. And claiming that the American government doesn’t cover things up- I wonder what kind sort of America you live in.

Oh, that’s right. You just go to the topic of homosexuality and claim that anyone who doesn’t agree with the lifestyle are invalid.

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 17, 2015 1:20:45 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
People have claimed that the Catholic church was involved in a coverup protecting pedophile priests. for years people claimed that they were conspiracy nuts trying to bring down the church. Now we know otherwise.

So how was the Catholic Church able to keep this under wraps for as long as they did, but our government is totally unable? And you are the one who seems to be claiming that our government is transparent, and that the public knows everything they are doing.

I guess it only works one way. When it supports you. Otherwise you don’t agree with it.

Last edited by the author 6 minutes ago
CritThink says:
my so called facts. You said the NYT was the Washington Times, then called it the Washington Post.
FACT: They are three different newspapers, the one you put links too was run by the head of what is considered a cult, which is pretty bizarre considering you dwell so much on cults and his was real, not imagined. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/03/world/asia/rev-sun-myung-moon-founder-of-unification-church-dies-at-92.html

So let me say that again, you are basing Franklin on reports in a cult leader’s newspaper.

I never said conspiracy. Delusion is not conspiracy. It’s just the opposite. Delusions are subjective by nature and conspiracies require cooperation.

Huh, look back and see one point that I claimed ANYTHING about “our government” much less that it was “transparent.” LEARN TO STICK TO WHAT I SAY, not what you imagine I say.

1 new post since your last visit
Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 17, 2015 1:35:49 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
my sister is right. Your contention that conspiracies don’t exist is ridiculous, and arguing with you is a waste of time. The fact that you claim that our government is transparent and unable to be involved with any conspiracies is false, and any attempt to change your mind is a waste of time.

Your goal is to try and make everything I say invalid. And it really doesn’t matter. No one cares what you think. Least of all me. And just because you do everything you can to discredit what I have said about my upbringing, the fact is you don’t have a clue and only have opinions. None of which can be swayed or altered. As far as you are concerned, there is nothing about me that has redeeming qualities, and you are going to do your best to project your opinions as such.

CritThink says:
I said NOTHING about our government being anything so stop saying I did!

Posted on Mar 17, 2015 2:52:40 PM PDT
CritThink says:
Oh, and by the way people do conspire to commit crimes. That’s what the RICO law is about. http://rico.uslegal.com

1 new post since your last visit
Your post: Mar 17, 2015 3:17:42 PM PDT
You edited this post
LoessJedi says:
ummmm, wow. You completely ignored what I last said. My sister is right, and you will deflect from the truth to keep arguing with me. She is right- your only objective is to try and make others think that I have absolutely no redeeming qualities as a human being- and that everything I do or say is wrong. You also present yourself as a victim- trying to make my attitude towards you indicative of how I feel about the whole LGBT community- like anyone looks at you like you represent the community as a whole. You will bypass anything you can’t argue- and continuously focus on attacking me- which shows your true motivation. I just don’t see the point in this. You guys claim that the reason why I shouldn’t speak about events in Omaha is because you have no evidence that I was personally involved, although my older sister has publicly stated that I am telling the truth, as she and our older siblings were ALSO involved. If I say something you don’t like, you just ignore it and begin a new tangent while ignoring what was said. I have no interest in such deflection, nor do I wish to have the conversation completely controlled by you- who obviously- by your arguments in here, are meant solely to discredit anything I say. Every view point has a counter viewpoint that disagrees with what is said, but instead of using that- you just switch the conversation to further attacking me as a person. It gets old. Not to mention predictable.

But I am glad that you understand that the American government ISN’T transparent and that they do things they are able to keep quiet all the time. Thus- our government IS capable of committing conspiracies. And there are a lot of laws on the American books, but just because they exist doesn’t mean that the crimes do not still happen. And it certainly doesn’t mean that people who own the legal system get prosecuted. Saying that money doesn’t matter, and that it can’t be used to control the nation, is to express a basic lack of understanding of how our world works. I mean, the Koch brothers are guilty of one scandal after another- and still they are going strong.

But regardless, this argument that has been going on for the past few days is only being done to present your opinion that I, as a human being, have absolutely no redeeming qualities in your opinion, although you don’t know me or any of the people in my life. Based on such an uneducated thesis, your assertions can only be called OPINIONS, as you have no idea how I live, or what my daily life consists of as a human being. Not to mention knowing any of the people who are in my life.

So this argument is nothing but a time waster.

CritThink says:
Look here is the thing, SRA is baseless. Abuse is real. Why not concentrate on your father’s real abuse, of which SRA was never a part. I don’t know why you and your sister feel the need to focus on SRA. If your sister got some horrible therapy that focused on SRA I feel sorry for her, I really do. But this crap hurts innocent people. It sends innocent people to jail and is horrible…it’s a made up nightmare.

I have nothing against you or your sister…what I want to stop is harmful ideas spread by the mental health profession that have led horrible, horrible outcomes. It’s not the SRA, it’s the belief in SRA that harms.

PS…I can’t present myself as a TG victim because I am not TG. And even if I were I would not play the victim, it’s not my style and never has been. What I find appalling is you spout off horrible, horrible things about a transgender person. I happen to have known a few trans people and that’s just the kind of crap that would drive a trans kid to suicide and has. Wake up! Take responsibility for your words. You don’t know Menagerie…everything you said about her is no reason to behave the way you have unless you were put up to it by Pat.

I really, really, hate the way she uses people to do her dirty work. It’s well known in her community. Why you feel the need to stoop to her level, and sling mud for her, I don’t know.

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 17, 2015 4:41:23 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
My focus was on you. What I said was aimed at you personally. And I have stated for years that my focus is not really on SRA but rather the child abductions and trafficking that was going on. SRA has been nothing more than detract from the child trafficking that was going on. That has been my focus for quite some time. SRA just detracts from the real issues, so on that we agree.

In reply to your post on Mar 17, 2015 5:22:49 PM PDT
CritThink says:
David since I am not TG…you can’t aim it at me personally. And your comments are offensive to ANY TG. Man up! Again why you do Pat’s dirty work when you were on the receiving end of some pretty horrific behavior on her part, I don’t know.

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 17, 2015 5:58:11 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
What dirty work are you speaking of? Other than fighting with you on amazon, it isn’t like I am even really involved with the survivor community, much less ivory garden. I spend my days sewing and hanging out with friends. The only reason I am in here is because my phone dings. And I love my phone. But that is about it.

In reply to your post on Mar 17, 2015 6:43:39 PM PDT
Last edited by the author 3 minutes ago
CritThink says:
oy, yesterday you were working the conference and now you are not involved with IG. Whatever.

And by the way, SRA is right in your title.

I’m talking about trashing a former IVORY GARDEN MEMEBER from the IVORY GARDEN CONFERENCE, who I am not but some “reliable source” told you I was her. Gee…what source was that could it be the woman who trashed you openly on the internet for all to see?

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 17, 2015 6:48:53 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
yeah, i am working the conference in October. Right now it is March.

And yeah- SRA is right in my title. Cause I went through it. I am not going to argue about something you have no clue about. But again- it is more about the child trafficking that as happening than SRA. There were a lot of things going on in Omaha. I just find it interesting that you say thousands of people have claimed SRA abuse- and yet you are so sure that all of them are liars.

Look- I am tired of arguing with you. Lets just chose to disagree. I am not going to change you- and you are certainly not going to change me. So arguing about this is not only futile, but stupid.

You edited this post
LoessJedi says:
ummmmm no. she was recognized by one of the speakers. and yeah- they are sure it was you. so go get a life and go try to manipulate someone else.

and other than rushing the stage to publicly hand flowers to the host and thank her- she didn’t do squat for the conference. Menagerie I mean.

CritThink says:
<>

OMG, this effin’ hilarious. You simply say it’s me and I become this other person. David, let me ask you this? Do you have a clue who you are? Can anyone change that by saying you are someone else? I’m sitting here at my computer and I can’t do advanced physics, but I can freakin’ KNOW WHO I AM!

AND IT NOT SOMEONE CALLED MENAGERIE!!!!!!!! AND I AM NOT TG!!!!! AND I”M NOT MALE!!!

OMG, it was a speaker…Oh, please, please tell me it was someone from the ISSTD…the font of delusion! That would just be too rich if I were accused of being a transgender by an ISSTD therapist. You could that right up there with their general theories on things…as in not factual AT ALL!

LoessJedi says:
Lol, everyone is a liar but you. I see.

What is the point of this conversation anyway? Anyone who sits in their house at their computer can lie just like anyone else. What makes you any different? Are you incapable of being pretending to be someone else on the Internet? What makes you any different than the rest of the human race?

And you might know who you are but like you have said over and over and over – no one else does. You could be anybody and any thing and you are adament that you aren’t telling. Of course it isn’t like anyone cares. Whoever menagerie is or is not, she won’t be at this year’s conference. So give it a break.

CritThink says:
So, someone from the ISSTD was reading my posts and nailed me as a transgender at the conference!!!!!!!!! OMG, how do those luminaries keep their licenses? You and Felicity have excuses…you are not licensed but that a licensed professional was the root of that BS…that’s just too much for words.

1 new post since your last visit
Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 17, 2015 8:14:44 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
Instead of deferring to other people- why can’t you answer the question I just posed?

Anyone who sits in their house at their computer can lie just like anyone else. What makes you any different? Are you incapable of being pretending to be someone else on the Internet? What makes you any different than the rest of the human race?

Your secrecy is obviously very important to you. but the question still is…..

Anyone who sits in their house at their computer can lie just like anyone else. What makes you any different? Are you incapable of being pretending to be someone else on the Internet? What makes you any different than the rest of the human race?

why don’t you try answering this question rather than trying to deflect the conversation onto others.

And also answer this- what exactly IS the point of this exchange?

You have a reason to lie. What possible reason would anyone else have?

CritThink says:
I am not lying. I am not a man. I am not transgender. I answered your question, TWICE! According to what you are saying this whole thing originated with a Ivory Garden therapist ( a speaker, no less) at a convention who said that CritThink was a transgendered woman which led to all sorts of remarks. I’ve been telling you I am not this person ever since…but for some reason you insist I am.

So I guess I was the talk of the convention without actually being there. I guess I should be flattered – or horrified. I think awhile back you said “EVERYONE was remarking about how ugly I looked in a dress.” Is this therapist EVERYONE? What would it matter if I wore a dress, a kilt, or a space suit? We are talking Seattle, which I hope is a little more enlightened on such issues than other parts of the country. Has that therapist not ever seen a transgender person before? Why would she point one out? Frankly I’m confused.

In reply to your post on Mar 18, 2015 7:45:18 AM PDT
CritThink says:
<>

And, who will stop her???

LoessJedi says:
the question WAS what makes you so impervious to lying online, esp since you have made it such a point to dance around and laugh that no one knows who you are.

Someone recognized you, or at least they thought they did. You and I had a conversation where you laughed about being there, even commented on my weight, but then changed your tune for whatever reason. Your secret identity is key to you, and you prize it highly, so even if someone did guess who you are, I suspect you would simply lie to further your incognito status. Personally I don’t believe you.

Why? Because you keep wanting to twist things to make others look bad. IT WAS ME WHO COMMENTED HOW BAD YOU LOOKED, NO ONE ELSE, but now you are trying to assert that one of the therapists who was speaking, all top in their fields, has issues with a Transgendered person. Which is why I previously said you give the LGBT community a bad name. Cause if someone says something about YOU that you disagree with, suddenly they are saying it about EVERY Transgendered person. And since you have incessantly gone on and on about it, i,ME DAVID SHUTER WHO ISNT SPEAKING FOR ANYONE BUT ME, don’t really believe anything you say.

Because the answer to my question that you won’t answer is that THERE IS NOTHING PREVENTING YOU FROM SITTING ON YOUR COMPUTER AND LYING ABOUT WHO YOU ARE. Absolutely nothing.

LoessJedi says:
if you aren’t it- why do you care?

Posted on Mar 18, 2015 9:31:42 AM PDT
CritThink says:
<> Ah yeah, the incredibly credible person.

Tell me how does someone…this therapist…recognize someone they have never met? I just want to know how that works.

1 new post since your last visit
Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 18, 2015 9:38:21 AM PDT
LoessJedi says:
I find it funny that the other day you claimed that if I had eaten a ham sandwich I had to prove that I had eaten a ham sandwich, yet if you claim something- everyone should just take your word for it.

I find that this hypocritical stance only works for you. Everyone else- namely me- has to prove everything I say but you- your contention is that people just take your word for it.

And they recognized you as someone who works with the false memory club. I know I know- you say it isn’t so and so people should just take you at your word while everyone else has to PROVE everything they say.

I have no intention of arguing with you. You are able to lie- JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE, and yet you don’t want anyone to say that. You just think that since you are anonymous, people just need to take you at your word and trust that you don’t lie because you have claimed that you don’t lie. Of course it isn’t like you will ever admit to lying. That is something everyone else has to do. But because you say you are honest, people just need to take your word for it.

Last edited by the author 14 minutes ago
CritThink says:
I am trying desperately to follow you.

1.) A therapist who is a speaker pointed to a man in a dress and said, “That person works for the False Memory club.”
(Not for nothing, but this is Lori’s friend we are talking about.)

2.) Other people agreed.

3.) Other people besides this therapist had issues with a man in a dress.

How the world does an ISSTD therapist know someone who works for “The False Memory” club? Are those two factions having tea these days?

I am sooooo confused.

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 18, 2015 10:23:24 AM PDT
LoessJedi says:
Lol. No, you aren’t confused, you are being manipulative. You are trying to stay the focus from yourself to everyone else to try and make everyone focus on everyone else but you. Your assumption is that everyone else needs to prove everything they say but you should just have you taken at your word while claiming that everyone else is a liar while you, just because you say so, are incapable of lying. in your arguments, you are attempting to make everyone else look like the aggressor when it is you who won’t let the situation go. you, as an anonymous troll who has something critical to say about everyone else, feel as if you are beyond reproach just because you claim you are. You avoid every question posed at you by trying to deflect it on what you perceive are the inappropriate actions of others so that no one focus on you. Every post you make deals with bashing everyone else as you claim that anyone who speaks about you is showing their disdain for the LGBT community as a whole, although what I have said about you is solely about you and has nothing to do with anyone else. The claims of those who have impeccable records should be dismissed solely on your word, although you have stated over and over that no one knows who you are because you are anonymous. You act like I am speaking for everyone despite the fact that I have said repeatedly that I am only speaking for myself, and you do so in some desperate attempt to defame everyone. You are not confused. You are manipulative, and claiming that you aren’t being manipulative is a lie all within itself. Your constant continuation of keeping this ridiculous conversation going is an attempt to trash anyone you can while shying away from the fact that you are doing so, and anyone who reads this will be able to see that. Again, everyone is expected to prove everything they say while you expect just to be taken at your word. This is hypocritical at best and the fact that you expect everyone to adhere to this is delusional. But I hope this post helps clear up your confusion. I am not sure how I can be anymore direct. And again, I am speaking SOLELY for myself, so any attempt to deflect what I have just said is nothing more than yet another manipulation on your part.

CritThink says:
You said someone incredibly credible told you who I am? I know who I am…I don’t know how someone else can claim I am a “man in a dress.”

1 new post since your last visit
Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 18, 2015 10:33:02 AM PDT
LoessJedi says:
and everyone is just suppose to take your word for it. Why is it that you adhere so hard to this belief? Why do you feel that everyone else needs to prove everything they say but you are just to be taken as by your word, as an anonymous troll? How exactly does that work?

Now I am confused. (not really, I am just being factious.)

In reply to your post on Mar 18, 2015 11:43:36 AM PDT
Last edited by the author 21 minutes ago
CritThink says:
Why do I adhere to a belief that I am not a transgendered woman?

Because it’s NOT A BELIEF!!! It’s a fact!

Why do you adhere to the belief that you are a gay man? I know who I am David, you might not, but I do.

And I am not making claims…asking for evidence is the opposite of a claim and requires NO BELIEF. You have a strange definition of belief.

First person: There are UFOs,
Second person: Please provide evidence for your claim.
First person: Why should I believe you?
Second person: WTF?

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 18, 2015 12:07:19 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
Again, people should just believe you because you say so. But everyone else – they have to prove everything they say. I see how that works. as you have stated over and over, in your opinion no one has any idea WHO you are, so that leaves it open that you could be anybody. However, when it doesn’t work in your favor, you seem to be the first one to cry foul. I actually could not care less who you are, and am not going to lift a finger trying to prove what you may or may not be. I am simply content viewing you as a manipulative anonymous troll who struggles to deflect every conversation so they can try and slam anyone they can. THAT MUCH is undeniably obvious.

Your post: Mar 18, 2015 12:09:08 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
And your argument about UFO’s, commonly used as an argument by the false memory club, doesn’t even make sense. Perhaps I am wrong. Maybe you really ARE confused.

In reply to your post on Mar 18, 2015 12:16:18 PM PDT
Last edited by the author 3 minutes ago
CritThink says:
You made the claim about who I am. Rather an ISSTD therapist made the claim…you have to back your claim, not me. That’s how claims work….you make the claim, you prove it.

So what proof do you have I am a transgendered woman? Shall I call up Joan Golston and ask her for evidence to her claim since the whole thing seems to have started with her? Oh, excuse me, I think it was perhaps Sandra who said it. But you’ve mixed them up before too.

1 new post since your last visit
Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 18, 2015 12:29:11 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
again- you deflect. And not all the speakers were from the ISSTD. But you claim the one who recognized you is. But of course you don’t have to back up that claim- it is true simply cause you said it.

And you call all the speakers anyway. and the hotel. and Washington state officials. So knock yourself out. It isn’t like anyone listens to you anyway.

But good attempt at trying to intimidate me by naming a name. You are something else. If you can’t win by logic- I guess you feel that intimidation works. Of course I am not intimidated. Which is why you are going on and on. You will pull whatever trick you have in your bag to try and deflect away from yourself.

But it is interesting that you believe that even though no one knows who you are, they will all be eager to talk to you. Just shows what I have been saying- that you call EVERYONE to try and cause problems. You will even go so far as to name the names of people you are calling.

Joan has nothing to do with this. But it doesn’t prevent you from using her name in order to try and smear others. Of course- her record is impeccable- and you are an anonymous troll- so who do you think people are going to believe.

Don’t bother to answer that. I already know the answer. lol

In reply to your post on Mar 18, 2015 12:37:55 PM PDT
CritThink says:
Joan’s record is impecable? You mean her Satanic Ritual Abuse claims?

Let’s go back in time…you accused me of being a man in a dress who was ugly. And I’m intimidating you?

1 new post since your last visit
Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 18, 2015 12:46:36 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
LMFAO. I didn’t say you were intimidating me. I said you were TRYING to intimidate me. It isn’t working- but I think that it is funny that you would try to assert such a thing.

And according to you thousands of people have claimed satanic ritual abuse. Sooooo, other than trying to trash YET ANOTHER person, this argument is ridiculous. Also- she doesn’t MAKE SRA claims- she just treats patients, who may or may not be some of the thousands of people that you say have claimed SRA abuse. So unless you are trying to say that she should tell her patients what they can and can not say about their abuse, I don’t see the issue here.

Of course you are just trying to trash YET ANOTHER person. I am pretty certain that she, like myself, is not concerned in the least what an anonymous troll like yourself has to say about … well, anything.

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 18, 2015 12:49:54 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
and i didn’t accuse you of being a HIDEOUS looking man who looked ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS in a dress. I FLAT OUT STATED IT AS FACT.

(I actually deleted this comment seconds after posting it as I felt it was kinda harsh. lol)

Posted on Mar 18, 2015 2:15:56 PM PDT
CritThink says:
Hmm, what did I miss?

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 18, 2015 2:20:03 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
Lol, something about a carnival freak show but I decided it was kinda harsh, even for you.

But since you are following the conversation I think you can see it in your email. Lol

In reply to your post on Mar 18, 2015 2:44:43 PM PDT
CritThink says:
You’ve already used it. But I guess you forgot.

Your post: Mar 18, 2015 3:25:21 PM PDT
You edited this post
LoessJedi says:
Nope. the image is unfortunately unforgettable no matter what I do to try and forget it. It burns your eyes and sticks with you until the end, if you know what I mean. And I am certain you do, lol!

O’Karma the Lowly Leprechaun says:
David Shurter/LoessJedi says: >>Maybe you really ARE confused.<< CritThink isn't the one who's confused, here... Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 18, 2015 4:05:12 PM PDT LoessJedi says:
oh, and yet another anonymous troll who demands to be trusted just because its says it can be trusted. lol. Like anyone is just going to take your word for ANYTHING.

Hiding in the shadows- giving nothing but criticism while offering nothing of them self, I find it funny that you expect people to trust you just because you say they should. You dance around laughing that no one knows who you are- and then whine when others suggest that you might be something other than what you suggest.

In reply to your post on Mar 18, 2015 4:33:20 PM PDT
O’Karma the Lowly Leprechaun says:
>>Like anyone is just going to take your word for ANYTHING.<< I couldn't agree more, David. That's why I link to sources, why I link to your own comments/blog entries, why I copy and paste your exact words when you get caught lying to, slandering, defaming, and bullying (rather, attempting to bully) others. Posted on Mar 18, 2015 4:46:44 PM PDT Last edited by the author 1 hour ago O’Karma the Lowly Leprechaun says:
David Shurter/LoessJedi says: >>You dance around laughing that no one knows who you are<< Nope, sure don't. Truth is, no one else much cares if the arguments put forth are coming from Bert Jones or Jane Smith. The points being made either have merit, or they don't. You and Pat Goodwin are/were the only ones here who are so utterly dependent on attention and status-obsessed, and fixated on guessing who everyone else is. Even THAT is another facet of your narcissistic delusion -- Pat was convinced that I was August Piper at one point, and I think I even got a turn at being Debbie Nathan for awhile. As if neither of you have the humility to accept that we're all just ordinary people who disagree with you, who have pointed out the endless flaws in Judy Byington's book, pointed out that you can't show even the slightest bit of evidence for *your own* SRA claims, can't keep the simplest facts straight, and who have stood by while the two of repeatedly have meltdown after meltdown. Your post: Mar 18, 2015 4:49:29 PM PDT LoessJedi says:
Of course when you bully you leave that out. I mean, without my complaining amazon took down your last discussion group aimed at me.

And stating my opinions isn’t lying, as much as you would like to present it as such.

Everything is an argument with you, and you have made it quite clear that you don’t believe I have any redeemable values as a human being, and constantly try to present your belief.

You claim that I am the only one who knows what I have said about my oast is valid, and yet you have had conversations with my older sister who has said the same thing, which you conveniently avoid. That, in itself is deceptive.

Your only goal is to defame me, all the while complaining that I am doing it to you. All you do is attack, and then deny you are doing so claiming you have some higher purpose. which you don’t.

If you didnt see me as some sort of threat, you wouldn’t bother. But your desperation to have people see me as less of a human being is obvious. And since all you have done is attack and criticize me in here, and claim that it is my doing that you are compelled to do so, is so lacking in any responsibility of self that it is baffling. You didn’t create this second discussion group for any other reason that you want to talk about me. Again, why would you even bother if you didnt see Mr as some sort of threat. I mean, you say you did so in order for you to be able to discuss 22 faces, but have yet to post ONE THING on 22 faces since doing so.

You are something else.

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 18, 2015 4:58:31 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
O’Karma the Lowly Leprechaun says:As if neither of you have the humility to accept that we’re all just ordinary people who disagree with you,

actually- we are sick of you because you are NOT ordinary people who just disagree with us. You are a collection of people who attack- both online and in real life, calling EVERYONE you can think of to try and hinder our lives.

And if you aren’t a group- how exactly do you know who Critthink is or isn’t? I mean- unless you guys work in conjunction with each other- one would assume you don’t know any more about each other than we know of you. However- you have gone on and on about how I am wrong about who I think Critthink is.

And it does make a difference who you are. If you were government trolls, people would look at you differently. If you were satanists- they would see you in a different light. I am not sure why you are convinced that who we are makes such a difference but who you are makes none. I mean, if you were Doug Mesner- that would influence people’s idea of why you present what you do. Not saying you are- but if you were- IT WOULD MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

The point is that you are in here with an objective to attack. Not just me but anyone who you deem beneath you. Byington, Felicity, every therapist who is connected to the ISSTD. Who you are attacking says something about you- and why DOES make a difference.

In reply to your post on Mar 18, 2015 5:01:46 PM PDT
O’Karma the Lowly Leprechaun says:
David Shurter: >> I mean, you say you did so in order for you to be able to discuss 22 faces<< Not exactly -- I created this thread so as not to disrupt the 22 Faces threads with hundreds of pages about you and your book. As long as we're talking here, or even on one of the review threads for Rabbit Hole, it's at least on topic and relevant. Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 18, 2015 5:08:42 PM PDT LoessJedi says:
Oh- this discussion group, like the one you created that Amazon took down, doesn’t have ONE POST about what I wrote in the book Rabbit Hole. In fact, all it is are personal attacks on me and everyone else. You have already said that you have no interest in talking about the facts I gave in Rabbit Hole- but would rather talk about my arguments with your group- all the while you present them as one sided.

And again- like I said in the comment section of 22 Faces, if you don’t want to talk about me then I suggest you stop aiming EVERY POST at me. You act like you can say whatever you want and that I should feel as if I shouldn’t respond. You should be able to talk about me as much as you want- and I shouldn’t respond in any way shape or form because to defend myself is narcissistic.

and you listed your reason why you put up a second discussion group. Amazon removed it. Basicall because it was just another attack.

In reply to your post on Mar 18, 2015 5:11:59 PM PDT
O’Karma the Lowly Leprechaun says:
David Shurter: >> I am the only one who knows what I have said about my oast is valid, and yet you have had conversations with my older sister who has said the same thing,<< ...and your sister uses the same uncorroborated claims and bare assertions that you do. Neither of you can offer anything but your word for the things you say happen. The only thing that's certain is that you had lousy childhoods and were abused, and you both deserved much better. But I read your father's eulogy when you posted it on your blog, and it sounds like your father became a better person over time and even tried to make amends, if I recall correctly. >>And if you aren’t a group- how exactly do you know who Critthink is or isn’t?<< CritThink's been here since Aug 2012. That's when she posted her review. Do you honestly think this "Menagerie" masterminded this plan, bided her time silently so she could attend the conference that had to even be conceived of? Do your conspiranoid delusions know no end? >>both online and in real life, calling EVERYONE you can think of to try and hinder our lives.<< Nope. I think you and/or Pat is making that up for attention. In reply to your post on Mar 18, 2015 5:14:22 PM PDT O’Karma the Lowly Leprechaun says:
>>I am not sure why you are convinced that who we are makes such a difference<< I *don't* think it makes a difference! That's why everyone wanted you to shut up already and discuss 22 Faces! But since YOU insist on 24/7 David Shurter talk, fine. Let's go. We'll talk about you all you want. In reply to your post on Mar 18, 2015 5:18:02 PM PDT O’Karma the Lowly Leprechaun says:
>>this discussion group, like the one you created that Amazon took down, doesn’t have ONE POST about what I wrote in the book Rabbit Hole.<< Rabbit Hole is your biography, David, and that's exactly what we're discussing here -- your life. We're discussing you because YOU can't stop discussing you in forums where it's inappropriate to do so. And by the way, every time I point out that you have no evidence for your claims, I *am* referring to Rabbit Hole as well as the claims you make here on Amazon. Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 18, 2015 5:22:44 PM PDT Last edited by you 44 minutes ago LoessJedi says:
oh I see, she is a liar as well. Graduated top of her class in her Master’s for social work but she is still not able to determine what did and didn’t happen in our childhoods- at least not as well as you.

and claiming that Menagerie could be critthink- esp. since she was recognized at the conference- is not a “conspiranoid delusion”. It is only the beginning of 2015, and so we are talking- what, less than three years? Yeah- I think it took her time to figure out what to do. And it was about Ivory Garden website, which has been in operation for over 8 years now- and not the conference that was the primary focus.

and you can deny all you want. What does anyone expect- for you to say yes? What other response would anyone expect? Claiming that we are just “making it up for attention” is laughable. Esp. since Pat hasn’t been in here for close to a year now.

I think you will present everything in the worst possible light that you can.

Oh- and I tallied the comments that have been removed in just this discussion alone. I have had one removed- your group has had 18- and the majority have been primarily yours. I have not reported ONE myself (in fact I have every post saved as it is). So to say that I am attacking you and not the other way around doesn’t seem logical.

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 18, 2015 5:26:27 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
So how do I carry a conversation about myself SOLELY BY MYSELF? Or are you claiming that you were so victimized that you felt you needed to respond?

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 18, 2015 5:31:59 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
Rabbit Hole is about my childhood. About the Franklin Credit scandal and of all the child trafficking that was going on at the time. You simply dismiss this- say that I and my sis don’t know what we experienced, and you talk SOLELY about what has gone on in here. Not once have you ever discussed the people who were involved, and you seem to avoid anything I say about it- and totally focus on bashing me personally because I have fought with you and your group now for close to three years. IT IS THIS TIME PERIOD YOU FOCUS SOLELY ON. I mean- you just come right out and say that my sis and I don’t remember our childhoods correctly- although there is no possible way you could know anything about our childhoods.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 19, 2015 9:41:13 AM PDT
O’Karma the Lowly Leprechaun says:
>>Not once have you ever discussed the people who were involved, and you seem to avoid anything I say about it<< David, you already know why that is. You get so many facts wrong in your blog entries and your comments here, nothing you say can be trusted or taken at face value. I usually avoid MOST of what you say because it's so obviously wrong there's no need to respond. Often I'll hit on just one or two pertinent points. It would be a full-time job to address every one of your mistakes and false claims. And with that in mind, your claims about Franklin can't be taken as anything but the delusions of someone trying to interject themselves and weave their own history into a prominent event at the time. In reply to an earlier post on Mar 19, 2015 10:01:08 AM PDT LoessJedi says:
Lol you avoid me but yet you constantly engage me, even setting up discussion groups to do so. You claim I attack you, but 18 of your posts are removed whereas one one of mine is gone, and I had removed every post I made one the last discussion group you made so the only ones amazon took down were yours. Every day you post some insult or critism about me, yet claim that you are trying to avoid me. The majority of the facts you claim I get wrong are generally about your group, but instead of correcting me by showing the truth, you just insult me and call me names.

And your group is in here full time. Yesterday and the days before it, the conversation lasted all day, so suggesting that you don’t have the time to deal with what I presented about Omaha is laughable. You just don’t want to deal with what I have said, so you avoid it using personal attacks on me instead. Then you claim that I am the one attacking you, even though 18 of your posts just in here have been deleted. You are deceitful and try to present things that couldn’t be factual, like saying I have posted thousands of posts about myself while you just had to watch. You avoid any and every comment that might may you look unfavorable with attacks.

Your actions are NO DIFFERENT than what others are experiencing being attacked by govt trolls, so to claim you aren’t and expecting anyone to believe you is ludicrous. It isn’t like they admit to their activities any more than you do. The only thing people can see from this conversation is that you repeatedly attack constantly, and when confronted with that fact, you simply deny it while engaging in MORE personal attacks. It is not only old, it is predictable.

————————————————————————————–

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 19, 2015 9:41:13 AM PDT
O’Karma the Lowly Leprechaun says:
>>Not once have you ever discussed the people who were involved, and you seem to avoid anything I say about it<< David, you already know why that is. You get so many facts wrong in your blog entries and your comments here, nothing you say can be trusted or taken at face value. I usually avoid MOST of what you say because it's so obviously wrong there's no need to respond. Often I'll hit on just one or two pertinent points. It would be a full-time job to address every one of your mistakes and false claims. And with that in mind, your claims about Franklin can't be taken as anything but the delusions of someone trying to interject themselves and weave their own history into a prominent event at the time. In reply to an earlier post on Mar 19, 2015 10:01:08 AM PDT LoessJedi says:
Lol you avoid me but yet you constantly engage me, even setting up discussion groups to do so. You claim I attack you, but 18 of your posts are removed whereas one one of mine is gone, and I had removed every post I made one the last discussion group you made so the only ones amazon took down were yours. Every day you post some insult or critism about me, yet claim that you are trying to avoid me. The majority of the facts you claim I get wrong are generally about your group, but instead of correcting me by showing the truth, you just insult me and call me names.

And your group is in here full time. Yesterday and the days before it, the conversation lasted all day, so suggesting that you don’t have the time to deal with what I presented about Omaha is laughable. You just don’t want to deal with what I have said, so you avoid it using personal attacks on me instead. Then you claim that I am the one attacking you, even though 18 of your posts just in here have been deleted. You are deceitful and try to present things that couldn’t be factual, like saying I have posted thousands of posts about myself while you just had to watch. You avoid any and every comment that might may you look unfavorable with attacks.

Your actions are NO DIFFERENT than what others are experiencing being attacked by govt trolls, so to claim you aren’t and expecting anyone to believe you is ludicrous. It isn’t like they admit to their activities any more than you do. The only thing people can see from this conversation is that you repeatedly attack constantly, and when confronted with that fact, you simply deny it while engaging in MORE personal attacks. It is not only old, it is predictable.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 19, 2015 10:09:38 AM PDT
Last edited by the author 4 minutes ago
CritThink says:
David, did your sister go through years of therapy? Seems like Omaha has a few SRA therapists. If she some therapist took advantage of her because of your stressful childhood and helped her ‘uncover’ SRA memories that would really, really suck.

And I don’t know how long Pat has been seeing Joan Golston for a therapist, but if Golston was the source of her MPD diagonsis…then Joan, if you are reading this, you need be examined. Golston has silly SRA ties. I researched your claim she has nothing to do with SRA and you are wrong, David. She wrote papers about it.

I kinda hope it was Joan that accused a TG woman of being a part of club you mentioned. It only shows what shady folk the ISSTD has in its ranks…their conspiracies know no bounds.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 19, 2015 10:25:05 AM PDT
LoessJedi says:
Lol you avoid dealing with me but go out of your way to engage me daily, even setting up another discussion on my book to do so. That doesn’t seem like you are avoiding me at all.

For not being government trolls, you certainly ACT like ones. You have spent days and countless hours in here attacking me, felicity, Joan, the entire ISSTD group of therapists, and the claims of “thousands” of survivors coming forward who claim SRA abuse (figures you gave, which is why I put quotes around them). The only evidence you have given showing you aren’t paid government trolls is your claiming you aren’t, although no one expects paid trolls to actually do anything other than deny they are, expecting everyone to take their word for it.

But you two seem to want to spend inordinate amounts of time attacking me personally in here, all the while you claim that you are doing your best to ignore me, although your actions prove otherwise.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 19, 2015 4:21:58 PM PDT
Gordon_bydand says:
Actually, that is indeed how it works. You see, what you are doing is committing the logical fallacy of argument from ignorance. You make up some claim and then insist it must be true because it hasn’t been disproven. It might also qualify as the fallacy of ipse dixit, or bare assertion, in that you offer nothing to support this claim aside from your dogmatically insisting upon it.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 19, 2015 4:27:18 PM PDT
Gordon_bydand says:
“you avoid dealing with me but go out of your way to engage me daily, even setting up another discussion on my book to do so”
As s/he explained on the original thread, it was created in the hopes that you would take your shameless self-promotion here instead of trolling the reviews of a book you haven’t read and never discuss.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 19, 2015 5:07:35 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
Lol, a little late to the party Gordon. So what your saying is if I can’t prove you aren’t govt trolls, and there is no conceivable way to do that, then that proves your not. I see.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 19, 2015 5:09:57 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
Yes, he already explained that I posted thousands of threads talking to myself about myself. And you are just one more example of the consistent personal attacks that I deal with. no matter – the majority of your posts disappear so I needed worry.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 19, 2015 5:16:00 PM PDT
Gordon_bydand says:
No. That is not what I am saying at all. So now you have once again fallen to the straw man fallacy. However, there is quite a bit of evidence AGAINST us being “govt [sic] trolls”. Such as 1) we’re not trolls and 2) you’re not important. Really can’t stress that latter one enough. You genuinely think you warrant 3 full-time monitors, even if such things existed? Check your ego.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 19, 2015 5:17:11 PM PDT
Gordon_bydand says:
Funny, I don’t see any “personal attacks”.

“the majority of your posts disappear”
Didn’t you get an entire account wiped?

Posted on Mar 19, 2015 5:19:14 PM PDT
Last edited by the author 3 minutes ago
LoessJedi says:
Not according to Amazon, who suggested I use this account. Of course, not being on the phone with us, I am sure you know more about what was said than we do.

And what that have to do with your posts anyway?

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 19, 2015 5:21:04 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
Lol WHAT EVIDENCE? Just because you say so? And yet here you are.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 19, 2015 5:26:55 PM PDT
Gordon_bydand says:
The evidence already provided. Do keep up.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 19, 2015 5:27:57 PM PDT
Last edited by the author 1 minute ago
Gordon_bydand says:
You got an entire account wiped. So you saying to me “the majority of your posts disappear” is a bit weak, don’t you think? It doesn’t really signify anything important.

Posted on Mar 19, 2015 5:35:22 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
Again, amazon says they didn’t ban me. And it was them who suggested I use this account, which obviously hasn’t been banned. And what I do or don’t doesn’t signify what you do, so comparing the two seems silly.

In reply to your post on Mar 19, 2015 5:42:02 PM PDT
Gordon_bydand says:
It’s not silly at all. You have frequently attached great significance to something when it happens to others, while ignoring the exact same thing when it happens to you.

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 19, 2015 5:57:51 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
except amazon says THEY didn’t have anything to do with it. So your point is invalid.

but here are some interesting articles that were sent to me- showing that there is a systematic cover up concerning child abuse…

Revealed: Prosecutor who failed to nail Penn State coach for `sex abuse’ vanished in 2005 and was declared `legally dead’ this year

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2060027/Ray-Gricar-disappeared-2005-tried-bring-sex-abuse-case-Penn-States-Jerry-Sandusky.html

`We can’t prove sex with children does them harm’ says Labour-linked NCCL

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/462604/We-can-t-prove-sex-with-children-does-them-harm-says-Labour-linked-NCCL

Patricia Hewitt called for age of consent to be lowered to ten

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/10666875/Patricia-Hewitt-called-for-age-of-consent-to-be-lowered-to-ten.html

But since Amazon says they didnt ban me- and yet my posts were removed, it shows SOMEONE removed my posts. And I am still waiting on that evidence that you are not govt trolls. Just because you say evidence was provided- doesn’t mean it was. So go ahead- prove that you are not govt trolls.

Posted on Mar 19, 2015 6:03:46 PM PDT
Last edited by the author 1 minute ago
Gordon_bydand says:
Amazon had nothing to do with wiping your account? Then clearly there is a hacker who has infiltrated it (albeit one with really skewed priorities). Given the financial information Amazon uses, that would require a large investigation with lots of media coverage. Funny, I don’t remember seeing any such thing.

Also, UNRELATED stories do not show “that there is a systematic cover up concerning child abuse”.

We aren’t “govt [sic] trolls” for the simple reason that we aren’t trolls. QED.

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 19, 2015 6:07:13 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
lol- so you aren’t govt trolls because you say you aren’t trolls. But you said you have given evidence that you aren’t govt trolls. So if you have evidence- please provide it.

And I am not responsible for what Amazon does or doesn’t do. All I know is what they told me on the phone. But since they suggested I just use this account- that is what I did. And since you weren’t on the phone with Amazon you can’t say for certain what was said and what wasn’t. But I am obviously not banned now- so I am not worried about it.

Posted on Mar 19, 2015 6:14:01 PM PDT
Gordon_bydand says:
Then stop pretending that there is any significance in comment deletion. Because there’s really not.

I just gave the evidence. Not my fault you have the attention span of a goldfish. Want it again? We aren’t trolls, therefore we aren’t “govt [sic] trolls”.

Posted on Mar 19, 2015 6:14:54 PM PDT
Gordon_bydand says:
Ah! I just got the thread title. Clever.

1 new post since your last visit
Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 19, 2015 6:19:21 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
oh- so you aren’t trolls because you say you arent trolls. then you give a personal attack… “Not my fault you have the attention span of a goldfish” and your evidence is lacking. Just because you say you aren’t isn’t evidence. You said that you have given evidence- and then go on and on about what I am expected to provide as evidence- but then you just want to say something and have it looked at as evidence.

and what I do or don’t do doesn’t negate that the majority of your posts are removed. For attacking- just like you did in the last post.

In reply to your post on Mar 19, 2015 6:23:23 PM PDT
Last edited by the author 32 seconds ago
Gordon_bydand says:
You have an overly broad definition of what constitutes a “personal attack”. You should work on that. Although I guess this is another of those times where such things only apply in one direction…

We aren’t trolls because we do not meed the definition of ‘troll’. QED. Again. Do you really not understand how evidence works?

1 new post since your last visit
Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 19, 2015 6:25:29 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
Trolling, identity, and anonymity
Jimbo Wales at Wikimania 2006 on a conference discussing the identification and elimination of trolls

Early incidents of trolling[28] were considered to be the same as flaming, but this has changed with modern usage by the news media to refer to the creation of any content that targets another person. The Internet dictionary NetLingo suggests there are four grades of trolling: playtime trolling, tactical trolling, strategic trolling, and domination trolling.[29] The relationship between trolling and flaming was observed in open-access forums in California, on a series of modem-linked computers. CommuniTree was begun in 1978 but was closed in 1982 when accessed by high school teenagers, becoming a ground for trashing and abuse.[30] Some psychologists have suggested that flaming would be caused by deindividuation or decreased self-evaluation: the anonymity of online postings would lead to disinhibition amongst individuals[31] Others have suggested that although flaming and trolling is often unpleasant, it may be a form of normative behavior that expresses the social identity of a certain user group[32][33] According to Tom Postmes, a professor of social and organisational psychology at the universities of Exeter, England, and Groningen, The Netherlands, and the author of Individuality and the Group, who has studied online behavior for 20 years, “Trolls aspire to violence, to the level of trouble they can cause in an environment. They want it to kick off. They want to promote antipathetic emotions of disgust and outrage, which morbidly gives them a sense of pleasure.”[30]

Taken off Wikipedia

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 19, 2015 6:28:07 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
Gordon_bydand says: We aren’t trolls because we do not meed the definition of ‘troll’.

What the heck do you mean by “meed”? Maybe you should take your own advice and learn the English language.

In reply to your post on Mar 19, 2015 6:28:30 PM PDT
Gordon_bydand says:
Excellent. You’re learning. And since none of that applies to me, nor can I see it applying to Karma or CritThink…

In reply to your post on Mar 19, 2015 6:29:00 PM PDT
Gordon_bydand says:
Typo. It has been corrected.

1 new post since your last visit
Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 19, 2015 6:29:45 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
They want to promote antipathetic emotions of disgust and outrage, which morbidly gives them a sense of pleasure.

this doesn’t apply to you? Really?

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 19, 2015 6:33:06 PM PDT
You edited this post
LoessJedi says:
Internet Troll
Someone who causes dismay to someone on the internet that they don’t even know, much less befrended on a site. They are most likely known to put lame or hurtful comments on someone’s facebook, YouTube video (mainly videos in which the user is attempting something new like animation or clay mation), or anywhere you can openly post comments. Internet Trolls are known to also have never contributed to the site they terrorize on and have a lame username.

This explains you completely. Esp the lame name.

Internet Troll
An internet troll is a person who uses anonymity to cause frustration, anger, impatience or to generally be disruptive for no seemingly good reason EXCEPT to be that nuisance.

Most are souless bastards, touched by daddy/priest, and in the stead of coping with that trauma in a healthy way, take out their aggression, anger, impotence, frustration on others.

-have problems forming real-life relationships; have a hard time attracting members of the opposite/same sex,generally introverts. Though some are ‘trolls-in-hiding’, most are skill-less loners.

General troll behavior:disruptive forum posts; the posts are generally off-topic, or unnecessarily combative. Each contemporary popular website has its own sub-genre of troll

-can be male or female, mostly males, including the popular ‘gender bender’44 yo man that acts like 14 yo girl

Female internet trolls, are far more scary then their male counterparts. Female trolls seem to better able to delude themselves into believing that their behavior is not only accepted online but that the traits that they find so well received (they are not) will transfer well to real life. usually ends badly.

Internet Troll
A person, often hiding behind a fake name and a fake photo who derails the topic by attacking the commenter and/or changing the subject. A troll is different from a participant in a conversation who disagrees with a post or article and sticks to the topic presenting their opinion in a respectful way. They often use personal attacks, bad language and lack of respect toward participants while adding nothing to the conversation at hand.

In reply to your post on Mar 19, 2015 6:37:18 PM PDT
Last edited by the author 1 minute ago
Gordon_bydand says:
No, not in the slightest. It describes you perfectly, though.

“in the stead of coping with that trauma in a healthy way, take out their aggression, anger, impotence, frustration on others”
“derails the topic by attacking the commenter and/or changing the subject”
Yup, that’s you all right. Which is why you spent 3 years harassing people for pointing out the factual errors in a book you never read, constantly interjecting yourself into the narrative.

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 19, 2015 6:41:01 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
a grade school argument. Just what people have come to expect from you.

And I am so unimportant and yet here you are- post after post- trying to engage me in arguments.

oh- and so we are clear…

verb (used with object), engaged, engaging.

1. to occupy the attention or efforts of (a person or persons):
2. to attract and hold fast:
3. to occupy oneself; become involved:
4. to cross weapons; (esp.) enter into conflict:

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 19, 2015 6:41:52 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
you are in here engaging me. And what does Joan or the group of ISSTD therapists have to do with me?

In reply to your post on Mar 19, 2015 6:48:09 PM PDT
Gordon_bydand says:
“A troll is different from a participant in a conversation who disagrees with a post or article and sticks to the topic presenting their opinion in a respectful way”
A distinction that trolls (like you) seem to ignore.

“They often use personal attacks, bad language and lack of respect toward participants while adding nothing to the conversation at hand.”
Again, you can’t get more “adding nothing to the conversation” than spending THREE YEARS attacking people and managing to say NOTHING about the book in question.

In reply to your post on Mar 19, 2015 6:48:47 PM PDT
Gordon_bydand says:
…Who? Not sure if you’re trying another straw man or just confused yourself again.

In reply to your post on Mar 19, 2015 6:50:01 PM PDT
Last edited by the author 3 minutes ago
Gordon_bydand says:
It is not a “grade school argument”. It’s the truth. As part of (and to hide) your incessant trolling, you call everyone else a troll. And I wouldn’t say I’m “engaging” you so much as I am pointing out your errors and intransigence. More didactic than conversational.

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 19, 2015 6:53:55 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
lol- and yet here you are managing to say NOTHING about my book Rabbit Hole.

I found this interesting organization that finds out anonymous attackers. I have a phone call into them. It will be fun finding out who you all are. And then we can have some REAL discourse…

Contact Rexxfield

Contact Us
Phone USA +1 (408) 916-5977
United Kingdom +44 (0) 20 3286 3377
Europe +358 9 2316 9888
Australia +61 (0) 73040 2223

Fax +1(314) 237-4976
Rexxfield, LLC.
1562 First Ave # 205-1716
New York, NY 10028-4004
USA Rexxfield, Pty Ltd.
PO Box 777
Ipswich 4305
AUSTRALIA

In reply to your post on Mar 19, 2015 6:55:51 PM PDT
Gordon_bydand says:
So you are once again resorting to threats. Trying to “out” people because you’re losing.

YOU aren’t saying anything about your book, either.

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 19, 2015 6:57:27 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
hmmmm, lets stop this conversation until I get a call back from Rexxfield. I think this might put a whole different light on this conversation.

1 new post since your last visit
Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 19, 2015 6:57:27 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
hmmmm, lets stop this conversation until I get a call back from Rexxfield. I think this might put a whole different light on this conversation.

In reply to your post on Mar 19, 2015 7:00:00 PM PDT
Gordon_bydand says:
Are you looking to get arrested?

In reply to your post on Mar 19, 2015 7:01:54 PM PDT
Gordon_bydand says:
Yes, a call back saying that this isn’t what they do. At which point you will lie and say that you decided not to go through with it, even though you already said that you have.

1 new post since your last visit
Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 19, 2015 7:04:09 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
they find out who anonymous trolls such as yourself are. And I am not going to report anything in here, I am just gonna use my taxes to employ them. and threatening me with arrest is not going to work. You can post all things about me anonymously- as soon as I find out who you are, I will do the same.

In reply to your post on Mar 19, 2015 7:07:49 PM PDT
Last edited by the author 1 minute ago
Gordon_bydand says:
Well, once again I’m not a troll. Second, how do taxes enter into it? Third, yes, I will have you arrested if you HARASS me. And fourth, I urge everyone to report your THREATENING AND ILLEGAL remarks; maybe this time Amazon will shut you down for good.

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 19, 2015 7:08:13 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
I think people deserve to know who is so vehemently fighting with me. and i would LOVE to know. I have a feeling it will put all your arguments against me, Felicity, Joan, the ISSTD group- and the “thousands” of survivors who have claimed SRA abuse in the proper light. If you have nothing to hide- then you have no reason to be afraid.

1 new post since your last visit
Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 19, 2015 7:10:15 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
posting your info on my blog and identifying you is not harassment. You have had a lot to say- I think it is time people know exactly who you are- so they can properly judge what is being said by you. And the 3 grand in taxes will enough cover the costs of such info. I knew I would find a proper use for that money. So save your threats.

In reply to your post on Mar 19, 2015 7:11:15 PM PDT
Gordon_bydand says:
No, no one “deserves” to know any such thing. Little concept called privacy. Nor will it “put all [my] arguments…in the proper light”. Sidebar, I don’t know who “Joan” is, nor have I ever mentioned ISSTD that I recall. And I have absolutely nothing to hide, which is why I’m not. I am protecting my privacy, a wise precaution, especially when dealing with a violent unhinged sociopath.

In reply to your post on Mar 19, 2015 7:12:40 PM PDT
Gordon_bydand says:
Oh yes, it most certainly IS harassment. Again, I will have you charged to the full extent of the law if you proceed with this ILLEGAL and UNWARRANTED action.

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 19, 2015 7:15:04 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
lol- more attacks. But I think that people have a right to know. you have a lot to say- and obviously doing it secretly from the shadows is incredibly important to you. and there is no proof that I am a violent, unhinged sociopath. But since you want to assert this, I find it interesting that you constantly keep wanting to poke me with a stick. And you must not live in the same America that I do. Privacy is NO LONGER A GUARANTEED RIGHT. lol

1 new post since your last visit
Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 19, 2015 7:16:40 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
Do what you gotta do sweetie. I am CERTAINLY going to do what I want. But it is funny- you seem frazzled at the aspect that people are going to find out who you really are.

In reply to your post on Mar 19, 2015 7:18:27 PM PDT
Gordon_bydand says:
Yes, the legally illiterate troll thinks that “people have a right to know”.

“there is no proof that I am a violent, unhinged sociopath”
I know, right? All that stuff about you being programmed to be the anti-Christ and murdering people? Complete garbage. Although there is still the matter of your protection order.

I do not “constantly keep wanting to poke [you] with a stick”. I want you to stop lying. To someone like you, that might seem the same, but it’s not.

In reply to your post on Mar 19, 2015 7:18:51 PM PDT
Gordon_bydand says:
Go ahead. I will see you rot in jail.

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 19, 2015 7:21:29 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
none of which prove I am violent- (I have absolutely NO history of violence), unhinged (which the professionals that I see will attest to), or that I am a sociopath.

But be assured- I am not lying about the fact that I am going to pay to find out who you are. One way or another- and then when I do- I am going to put a name to your comments so that everyone knows who YOU are. Doing such is neither being violent, being unhinged, or being sociopathic. It just puts all of us in the same playing field.

1 new post since your last visit
Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 19, 2015 7:22:22 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
lol- threats before I even do anything. Seems you are pretty unhappy with being forced out of the darkness. One has to wonder why. I certainly do.

In reply to your post on Mar 19, 2015 7:31:34 PM PDT
Gordon_bydand says:
Your alleged history as a murderer isn’t violent? So you now are admitting that you made it all up! Great.

Your continued threats of illegal activity, on the other hand, DO indicate your thuggish nature.

In reply to your post on Mar 19, 2015 7:32:45 PM PDT
Last edited by the author 3 minutes ago
Gordon_bydand says:
“One has to wonder why. I certainly do.”
Yes, of course you do. Because, as has been previously established, you aren’t paying attention, since I’ve said multiple times that I value my privacy, especially from someone as delusional as you. Only a conspiracy theorist like you could read something sinister into that.

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 19, 2015 7:38:05 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
lol- being forced to murder kids under the age of 10 isn’t an indication of my violence. Unless of course you are suggesting that I am America’s first underage serial murder.

In reply to your post on Mar 19, 2015 7:40:26 PM PDT
Gordon_bydand says:
Yes, it is quite indicative, why would you ever say such a horrible and blatantly untrue thing? And no, I’m sure there have been young serial killers.

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 19, 2015 7:40:43 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
You are more than welcome to value your privacy. Doesn’t mean that I have too. And I have not been guilty of doing anything sinister in my life on my own volition. Finding out who you are is just something I intend to do, and really I do see the point of this argument. It IS going to happen, and you can bluster and make all the threats you want.

Oh- and the term “conspiracy theorist” comes from the CIA.

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 19, 2015 7:41:05 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
name one. under the age of 10.

Posted on Mar 19, 2015 7:42:03 PM PDT
CritThink says:
David, about the story you posted. The judge has a few words for people who spread this crap.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/children-forced-to-make-false-claims-of-satanic-cult-raping-kids-and-eating-babies-in-london-10120781.html

In reply to your post on Mar 19, 2015 7:42:53 PM PDT
Gordon_bydand says:
Oh, yes, you WILL respect my privacy. Or you will be charged with harassment, stalking, and anything else that will stick. Also, I wonder how you’re going to accomplish such a feat, without actions that are themselves illegal.

Doesn’t matter who came up with the term, the concept goes back a LONG time.

In reply to your post on Mar 19, 2015 7:43:39 PM PDT
Gordon_bydand says:
Moving the goalposts already? Your insipid demand is dismissed.

1 new post since your last visit
Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 19, 2015 7:45:49 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
I will do what I want. Save your threats- I haven’t done anything yet. And posting your real names on the internet is NOT harassment. I just think that it is time to see who your group is. Perhaps I will do nothing with the information. And perhaps not. But one thing is for certain- it is not for any of you to say.

In reply to your post on Mar 19, 2015 7:46:48 PM PDT
Gordon_bydand says:
Yes, it is. It is harassment, it is a threat, and it is illegal. Also, there’s still no “group”.

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 19, 2015 7:51:09 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
ummmm, saying I am going to pay someone to find out who you are is not a threat, it is not harassment, nor is it illegal.

and Critthink- a judge made the conclusion? Hmmmm- but officials in the UK are also having to deal with this…

`We can’t prove sex with children does them harm’ says Labour-linked NCCL

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/462604/We-can-t-prove-sex-with-children-does-them-harm-says-Labour-linked-NCCL

Patricia Hewitt called for age of consent to be lowered to ten

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/10666875/Patricia-Hewitt-called-for-age-of-consent-to-be-lowered-to-ten.html

In reply to your post on Mar 19, 2015 7:53:49 PM PDT
Gordon_bydand says:
Yes, it IS. It is harassment, it is threatening, and it is ILLEGAL. Again, how exactly do you propose to access my personal information?

In reply to your post on Mar 19, 2015 7:58:06 PM PDT
Gordon_bydand says:
Also, what does a report from one government agency across the pond from the 1970s have to do with anything?

Posted on Mar 19, 2015 8:00:02 PM PDT
Last edited by the author 10 minutes ago
CritThink says:
For god sake’s, David, read the article. It’s people like you who perpetuate this harm. The BELIEF of SRA harms children. The lives that have been ruined by this illogical belief are too many to count. I know you do it for the fame…but I repeat…if your sister’s SRA beliefs came from counseling, that’s a crying shame. These kids were exploited by conspiracy idiots…and finally, a judge had the balls to go after them.

And as for your link…that happened years ago…but both of them should loose their positions. I don’t support you exploiting children through your conspiracies nor do I support politicians who supported it decades ago.

In reply to your post on Mar 19, 2015 8:00:56 PM PDT
Gordon_bydand says:
‘the term “conspiracy theorist” comes from the CIA.’

I recently finished reading Phantom Terror: Political Paranoia and the Creation of the Modern State, 1789-1848, a rather engaging history about Europe in and after the Revolutionary era. The time when thrones, altars, and “the better sort” of persons trembled at the approach of liberty, often looking to bizarre and foundationless conspiracies involving the Illuminati (at least *they* were looking at the real ones…) and occultic nonsense. Tell me if any of this sounds familiar:

“[Conspiracy writer Leopold Hoffmann] pointed out that one of the leading Illuminati, Johann Christoph Bode, had visited Paris two years before the outbreak of the Revolution to confer with French Freemasons” (p 17)
“writers defended themselves against the charge of vagueness by hinting that their own lives were at risk, fuelling the growing myth of the ‘sect’s’ omnipresence and omnipotence” (ibid)
“Blind fear set the seal of veracity on untested assumptions, and in the prevailing psychological climate every coincidence had the power of proof: there is a point at which fear becomes a social pathology that floats entirely free of evidence.” (p 20)
“This kind of logic – according to which a supposition, once put forward, was deemed to be true; that it was unverifiable only served to confirm its truth, and indeed its significance” (p 32)

Clearly Bode, presumably a man of wealth, connections, and business, could *only* have traveled to one of the biggest and most cosmopolitan cities in the world with nefarious purpose in mind. Of course details will be scanty, lest they come for me, too!…which is why I’m publishing this tell-all under my own name. Obviously any and all misfortunes I suffer must be somehow linked back to this ominous presence that has nothing better to do than stalk me personally. And I am perfectly free to throw out any outlandish claim I see fit, and have it accepted as truth while demanding that YOU provide evidence to the contrary…evidence I will dismiss as having been planted by “Them”, one of which most likely is you. Yeah. Same crap, new century.

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 19, 2015 8:14:06 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
lol- WHAT FAME? You don’t even even know me personally- so claiming that you know about me, and my sis- which is laughable- it ridiculous. And saying that my sister’s memories came from therapy- when you dont have a clue who she is- is overreaching. Besides- there are so many claims from so many people regarding Omaha that it boggles the mind. And claiming that the “thousands” of people who have come forward claiming SRA abuse- your number, not mine, and dismissing them all due to bad therapists is also ridiculous. There has been a systematic attempt to shut down all claims of SRA, and although I can’t say one way or another, I can’t disregard that this judge is yet another. When you claim that “1000’s” of people have claimed abuse and that they ALL must be lying- something is wrong with your logic there.

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 19, 2015 8:16:33 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
that my friend, remains to be seen. Actually- Amazon said all I had to do was give them a simple subpoena and that they would release your IP addresses to me. So it seems pretty easy.

In reply to your post on Mar 19, 2015 8:31:18 PM PDT
Gordon_bydand says:
I’m certainly not your “friend”, and I very much doubt Amazon would ever say or do something so stupid unless they wish to go out of business due to the loss of customer confidence this would generate. Also, your ignorance of the law is showing again, as I’m pretty sure you don’t know what it would take to get a subpoena in the first place.

2 new posts since your last visit
In reply to your post on Mar 19, 2015 8:35:42 PM PDT
Gordon_bydand says:
“There has been a systematic attempt to shut down all claims of SRA”
Prove it.

“and although I can’t say one way or another, I can’t disregard that this judge is yet another”
Classic conspiracy theorist. Everyone is either a dupe or “in on it!”

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 19, 2015 8:36:50 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
well- I am sure the child advocate lawyer that I just talked to on the phone would appreciate you telling him all about how a subpoena works. He seemed to know quite a bit about it and told me in great detail that it wont be a problem. So we will see. But please- let us all know about your extensive knowledge of the law and how it works.

oh- and Critthink- lets bring it closer to home- shall we….

Revealed: Prosecutor who failed to nail Penn State coach for `sex abuse’ vanished in 2005 and was declared `legally dead’ this year

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2060027/Ray-Gricar-disappeared-2005-tried-bring-sex-abuse-case-Penn-States-Jerry-Sandusky.html

He wanted to press charges and disappeared. Later, Sandusky went to jail for the same charges Ray Gricar wanted to press. So saying that there isnt a cover up to keep all of this silent just doesn’t seem to fit the facts. And since the UK is exploding with issues right now that they did their best to keep child abuse quiet, saying that these are all lies is also not logical.

In reply to your post on Mar 19, 2015 9:00:21 PM PDT
Last edited by the author 54 minutes ago
Gordon_bydand says:
You’re on the West Coast, right? Yeah, I’m sure plenty of child advocate lawyers take calls from delusional childless 50-year-old bloggers at 8:30 at night. This is the same crap you’ve tried to pull before. I will not be intimidated by a known liar with demonstrable ignorance when it comes to legal matters. You can’t just get a court to issue subpoenas for anything you want. There’s a little thing called “probable cause”. Oh, and “prosecutorial misconduct”, that also helps cut down on the issuance of spurious writs.

In reply to your post on Mar 19, 2015 9:21:05 PM PDT
Last edited by the author 38 minutes ago
Gordon_bydand says:
Here we see yet another classic conspiracy theory. Hey, genius, this article is almost 4 years old. Also, find a better source, this is the notorious British tabloid the Daily Mail. So…a district attorney tried to prosecute Sandusky in 1998. And went missing in 2005. Well, “obviously” there’s a conspiracy at work! Or he committed suicide, he ran off, he was killed in connection with another case, he was killed by Sandusky personally, etc. Yes, actually, saying that there isn’t a cover up to keep all of this silent DOES seem to fit the facts, or at least carries equal weight. The only reason that story was written in the first place was because of later developments, aka, it became newsworthy. Also, the UK is not “exploding with issues right now”, as your two articles are about the same report from 40 years ago and do not, as far as what you linked says, have anything to do with “keep[ing] child abuse quiet”.

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 19, 2015 9:26:51 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
Whatever. I called and got the guy at home. I’m gonna let him figure it out but I have a strange feeling no one is going to call and consult you. And contrary to your belief, one I get the information, and I am working hard on it, i won’t have to disclose where I got it. So proving where I got it and who gave it to me will be on you. call me all the names you want, bluster and insult me all you want, but it won’t stop me. And like I said, when I get the info, I have no intention of disclosing who gave it to me.

But enough about this. You demanded I give proof that child abuse is being quieted and so I provided an article from a reputable source that reported about prosecuting attorney ray grocer and his connection to the Sandusky case.

All of your amazon antics won’t stop me from getting the help I need to find out who you are. but if all your threats and assumptions help you sleep better tonight, then by all means – go for it. But there are more people than just myself who are interested in knowing who you are. I’ll sleep well tonight with the knowledge that I am not alone. 🙂

Your post: Mar 19, 2015 9:31:30 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
Lol whatever. Obviously today’s conversation has you all riled up since you are still up handing out insults lol.

In reply to your post on Mar 19, 2015 9:34:58 PM PDT
Last edited by the author 10 minutes ago
Gordon_bydand says:
So this child advocate lawyer takes calls at his own HOME at 8:30 at night from a delusional childless 50-year-old blogger. Yeah. Okay. This just gets better with each obvious lie you tack onto it.

“And contrary to your belief, one [sic] I get the information, and I am working hard on it, i won’t have to disclose where I got it.”
Yes, actually, you would. Your continued ignorance of the law is laughable.

“You demanded I give proof that child abuse is being quieted and so I provided an article from a reputable source that reported about prosecuting attorney ray grocer and his connection to the Sandusky case.”
Well, no, actually *I* didn’t, but that’s not important. What is important is that there is no established connection. DA wants to pursue a case in 1998. DA goes missing in 2005. No link between the two other than that you desperately want there to be. Also, no, you did not provide an article from “a reputable source”. You linked to the Daily Mail. Not even close.

“All of your amazon antics won’t stop me from getting the help I need to find out who you are.”
Perhaps not, but the FBI will deal with it if it comes to that. Enjoy federal prison.

“But there are more people than just myself who are interested in knowing who you are.”
Why? It’s none of their business. Nobody stays awake at night wondering who you and your little “SRA” friends are. Most people know; you’re a bunch of crazies.

In reply to your post on Mar 19, 2015 9:35:48 PM PDT
Gordon_bydand says:
Yeah, amazingly enough, making illegal threats is a source of concern.

Your post: Mar 19, 2015 9:53:08 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
Stating I want to find out who you are so that you can’t hide in secretcy anymore isn’t a threat of any kind. You may not like it, but it isn’t a threat.

And who I call and when is really none of your concern. I got the number from a mutual friend, but again, that is none of your business. And since you don’t have a clue what you are talking about, arguing this with you is pointless.

And no one is staying awake wondering who you are. Your ego is talking, along with spewing insults.

The FBI is not concerned about your privacy. the only threats that have been leveled at anyone have come from you. Simply wanting to know who you are is no threat, but if you feel it is, by all means call the FBI or whoever you feel will help you. You can claim that me finding out who you are is illegal all you want, but it doesn’t make it so.

And again, who I call and talk too is none of your concern, and since you weren’t involved, listening to what you have to say about it is pointless. Level all the insults you want – but contrary to what you assert, i do have friends who have friends, and just because you claim it isn’t so doesn’t mean anything really.

But by all means, if it makes you happy keep going. It isn’t like I can stop you. Anymore than you will be able to stop me.

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 19, 2015 9:55:59 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
But I find it funny that you can take all the pot shots from the dark that you want, but when someone decides they are going to enlist others help to find out who you are, you have a tizzy. It is very brave of you. Lmfao.

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 19, 2015 10:22:54 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
Dated 3/16/2015
http://www.wopular.com/uk-police-watchdog-investigate-westminster-child-abuse-cover-newsweek

Dated 3/16/2015
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/world/article/Ex-UK-policeman-Detectives-told-to-drop-lawmaker-6138441.php

Dated 3/20/2015
http://www.buenosairesherald.com/article/184609/evidence-mounts-in-uk-childabuse-coverup

Hmmm- but I thought you said there were no recent issues involving a UK child abuse cover up.

News reports say otherwise…

In reply to your post on Mar 19, 2015 10:27:27 PM PDT
Gordon_bydand says:
“the only threats that have been leveled at anyone have come from you”
And that is a complete lie. When have I ever threatened anyone?

“You can claim that me finding out who you are is illegal all you want, but it doesn’t make it so.”
YES, IT IS. Because you have no right to do so, you have no legal avenue to do so, and the only way you can find such a thing is to do it ILLEGALLY. What about that are you not understanding?

“And no one is staying awake wondering who you are.”
Clearly you are, if you are willing to spend thousands of dollars to hire some shady business to hack my account. Which, again, is highly ILLEGAL; I seriously doubt they’d accept the job.

In reply to your post on Mar 19, 2015 10:28:09 PM PDT
Last edited by the author 49 minutes ago
Gordon_bydand says:
All lies as usual. Each word is complete vapid nonsense, so I’m not even sure how to refute that. Once again I must just assume that you are functionally illiterate or simply insane.

In reply to your post on Mar 19, 2015 10:33:42 PM PDT
Gordon_bydand says:
Two of those are the same story in different papers (neither in Britain), and the first link is scrambled. And no, I did not say any such thing. Stop LYING.

Your post: Mar 19, 2015 10:39:19 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
Lol I thought you were busy complaint to the FBI so they can protect your secret identity. Lmfao.

LoessJedi says:
If you have all the answers, then why are you going on and on and on about it? You have all the answers, so who are you trying to convince? I hope you aren’t trying to convince me. With all of your rhetoric and tantrums, it is hard to respect you at all.

And it is only 10:42 here. I generally stay up till one. toying with you is not keeping me up. Actually I have been quite entertained with your temper tantrums.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 19, 2015 11:04:44 PM PDT
Last edited by the author 12 minutes ago
Karma Cottontail says:
Gordon_bydand: >I know, right? All that stuff about you being programmed to be the anti-Christ and murdering people? Complete garbage. Although there is still the matter of your protection order.< I can't get over how much contact he seems to have with people in the mental health field, and how incredibly incompetent they must be to "work" with him (as a colleague) and participate in an event that he has any role in. Take Neil Brick, for example, who had him David speak at a SMART conference. What kind of mental health professional can miss this? Tragically, this subset of licensed mental health professionals that are willing to be involved with the likes of Shurter have a lot to answer for now. The lapse of judgement of two ISSTD presenters (licensed clinicians) resulted in the utterly tragic, completely preventable murder of a child by his own mother: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/16/nyregion/at-murder-trial-gigi-jordan-testifies-about-sons-accusations-of-sexual-abuse.html Your post: Mar 19, 2015 11:19:32 PM PDT Last edited by you 2 minutes ago LoessJedi says:
Yes, every therapist, at least connected with the ISSTD, is evil. Anyone who shows me compassion and respect is wrong, and you are more aware of my childhood than my sister and I. I mean, you don’t even know the details about Omaha, nor the people who were involved, and more so you are aggressive with your ignorance. If it doesn’t suit your objectives, then you vilify anyone who stands against you. And you do so hiding in the shadow of your anonymity and expect everyone to respect you. You claim you made this second discussion group in order to talk about me, and yet you can’t help yourself by bringing the ISSTD into it, although I am not part of that group, nor do I see anyone who is part of that group. you pretty much vilify anyone who deals with trauma and dissociation, grouping them, me, and all survivors into that group while insisting that even though you work in conjunction with each other, you all are not a group. Your hypocritical stance on all survivors and those who treat survivors as evil while you, claiming no credentials to make such assumptions is nauseating. Of course, as seen in these pages and pages of insults and derision, no one can tell any of your small group anything because you seem to believe you know it all. It is a joke really, and the advice I keep getting is not to keep feeding the trolls, be because you all have shown that your only goal is to argue. You all know everything much better than everyone else, and you make it a point to make sure your belief in your superiority is well known.

In reply to your post on Mar 19, 2015 11:30:25 PM PDT
Last edited by the author 7 minutes ago
Karma Cottontail says:
>>You claim you made this second discussion group in order to talk about me, and yet you can’t help yourself by bringing the ISSTD into it, although I am not part of that group<< Yes, you are, even if you aren't a member. You rub shoulders with people like Brick, Byington, other licensed mental health clinicians who are doing you, themselves, and their clients a huge disservice by promoting dangerous SRA conspiracy theories. This time, that conspiracy theory got a kid murdered. And the very people who should have recognized the mother's instability and gotten that child to safety not only missed that, but they actually encouraged her SRA delusion. They found this murdering mother to be rational and credible. What you and your incompetent colleagues promote isn't simply embarrassing, it's a public health hazard. You just replied with a later post Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 19, 2015 11:33:48 PM PDT LoessJedi says:
https://davidshurter.com/?page_id=660

oh, and since I haven’t posted this for a while- for anyone who wants to read the protection order my step mother got for a year on me- here are the transcripts.

As you can see, it was given because I sent her a card SIX YEARS PREVIOUSLY talking about the man she and my father forced me to light on fire. Anyone who reads it can see this- as it is plainly spoken about.

Like usual- this group wants to make it out to be WAY MORE than it is, even though NO WHERE IN THE TRANSCRIPTS is it even suggested that I am violent or a danger. This was an attempt to shut down my website and stop the publication of my book- neither of which worked.

But for those who are interested in what was presented- please feel free to have a look. Since I published it myself on my own blog- it isn’t like I am trying to hide anything.

1 new post since your last visit
Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 19, 2015 11:39:02 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
lol- I haven’t spoken to Brick in years (we don’t like each other and that definitely goes for me with Brick), Byington and I haven’t spoken since I came out to the West Coast, and just because I know a few clinicians, we hardly rub shoulders with each other. Karma just likes to make things more than they are. WAY MORE actually. And since I have never gone to school to be a therapist- you can hardly call us colleagues. And grouping us all together is just deceitful. The ISSTD is not a group of therapists who deal with SRA as Karma would like to present- but rather a group of therapists- (I am not one of them), who deal with trauma and dissociation. And saying if two are bad they are ALL bad is like saying if two dentists are bad they are ALL bad, or two lawyers, or doctors, or really anyone. And the fact that Karma has absolutely no training in psychotherapy- I hardly think he is qualified to make such overreaching conclusions, or any conclusions of any kind.

In reply to your post on Mar 19, 2015 11:42:07 PM PDT
Karma Cottontail says:
>>The ISSTD is not a group of therapists who deal with SRA as Karma would like to present- but rather a group of therapists- (I am not one of them), who deal with trauma and dissociation.<< I have a busy weekend, but give me a few days. I'd be happy to get you some quotes from the 2014 ISSTD annual conference where the presenters discussed both SRA and alien abduction. You just replied with a later post 1 new post since your last visit Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 19, 2015 11:49:14 PM PDT LoessJedi says:
Probably- I mean- people claim both all the time. Unless of course you are suggesting that they dictate what their clients can and can’t talk about. And trying to say this is ALL they speak about is ridiculous.

Lots of people claim they have had contact with aliens. But the therapists who try to help them by listening to it are the bad ones. And why is it that your false memory club always focuses on aliens? I mean- you bring it up a lot. Of course I have never met talked about aliens or alien abductions- but since the ISSTD discusses it, then I am guilty as well.

Why is it that you never deal with what I present and always seem to go off track. Since the are the International Society for the Study of Trauma and Dissociation, one can see by their very name this is what they deal with. Unless of course you are saying that trauma and dissociation aren’t issues in the human experience, and that they don’t often go together. Is this what you are saying? That it is wrong to treat such things. How would you help those who have gone through trauma and experience dissociation as a result? Say- for a war veteran?

In reply to your post on Mar 19, 2015 11:42:07 PM PDT
Karma Cottontail says:
>>The ISSTD is not a group of therapists who deal with SRA as Karma would like to present- but rather a group of therapists- (I am not one of them), who deal with trauma and dissociation.<< I have a busy weekend, but give me a few days. I'd be happy to get you some quotes from the 2014 ISSTD annual conference where the presenters discussed both SRA and alien abduction. 1 new post since your last visit Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 19, 2015 11:49:14 PM PDT LoessJedi says:
Probably- I mean- people claim both all the time. Unless of course you are suggesting that they dictate what their clients can and can’t talk about. And trying to say this is ALL they speak about is ridiculous.

Lots of people claim they have had contact with aliens. But the therapists who try to help them by listening to it are the bad ones. And why is it that your false memory club always focuses on aliens? I mean- you bring it up a lot. Of course I have never met talked about aliens or alien abductions- but since the ISSTD discusses it, then I am guilty as well.

Why is it that you never deal with what I present and always seem to go off track. Since they are the International Society for the Study of Trauma and Dissociation, one can see by their very name this is what they deal with. Unless of course you are saying that trauma and dissociation aren’t issues in the human experience, and that they don’t often go together. Is this what you are saying? That it is wrong to treat such things. How would you help those who have gone through trauma and experience dissociation as a result? Say- for a war veteran?

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 20, 2015 12:10:45 AM PDT
LoessJedi says:
All current, reported by the BBC, that show that pedophiles are often protected. Of course- the UK is across “the pond” as Gordon puts it- and so it exists in another universe apparently. But seems that there are issues protecting pedophiles- not to mention people like Jimmy Saville. I am sure this is going to spur an argument- but I don’t work or write for the BBC and have nothing to do with what they report.

Cyril Smith child abuse probe: Police officer threatened
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-manchester-31965044

Cyril Smith M1 arrest to be probed by Northamptonshire Police
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-31964255

Cyril Smith child abuse inquiry ‘scrapped after his arrest’
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-31908431

Cyril Smith: Detective claims three probes were stopped
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-manchester-28338402

Cyril Smith: MP’s friend made ‘veiled threats’ to police
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-manchester-28330779

Profile: Cyril Smith
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-27170909

In reply to your post on Mar 20, 2015 10:05:38 AM PDT
Last edited by the author 12 minutes ago
Karma Cottontail says:
David Shurter says: >>Lots of people claim they have had contact with aliens. But the therapists who try to help them by listening to it are the bad ones.<< No, David, they don't simply "try to help them by listening". They PROMOTE those conspiracy theories about aliens and Satanic Ritual Abuse. They promote and encourage them, because they believe it themselves. >>But seems that there are issues protecting pedophiles- << Like you do in your book, you mean? When you say your good pals, convicted child molesters Mark Andersen and Walt Carlson, were just victims of those bad kids? 1 new post since your last visit Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 20, 2015 10:19:47 AM PDT LoessJedi says:
Dude, I have no intention of constantly fighting with you. Mark and Walt were hardly the only pedophiles in town. I am hardly the only one who has stated there were issues in Omaha.

And I am NOT responsible for what the ISSTD does or doesn’t do, and just because you say I am doesn’t make it so. But I find it interesting that you won’t comment about the connection between trauma and dissociation, and since you obviously have opinions, you won’t tell anyone how each should be dealt with in therapy. You continuously trash the ISSTD but make absolutely NO SUGGESTIONS as to how trauma and dissociation should be treated in therapy. Maybe you don’t have any idea? And unless you have seen every therapist connected to the ISSTD, how can you make such blanket statements that they are ALL guilty of doing the same thing?

Your only objective in here is too attack. You claim that my background was full of abuse- and yet pick and choose what happened to me and my siblings, like you have any idea what we went through. It is actually hard to take you seriously. Every day is just some new criticism, and you avoid those topics that you have no answer for.

Such as- how would you treat patients who suffer trauma and dissociation? If the ISSTD is doing it wrong, what do you suggest to have them do it correctly?

And you go back and forth, claiming that therapists are not my colleagues because I have no training, but then hold me accountable for what they do in their therapy sessions. You have brought up that Brick and I fought- saying such is true about my whole life (although you have no possible way to know this), but when it works to your advantage you claim that we work hand in hand with each other- although I am not even sure that Brick is connected to the ISSTD. There is no way to win with you- you keep changing the parameters of your game so it is impossible to keep up.

I don’t have patients. I don’t provide therapy. I have no license to do so. So suggesting that I am responsible for what therapists do or don’t do with their clients is over reaching and manipulative. You just want to seem to grab the opportunity to trash the ISSTD, and are using me to do so. Since I am not connected to the ISSTD, I don’t see why this is a valid argument.

In reply to your post on Mar 20, 2015 11:08:08 AM PDT
Last edited by the author 7 minutes ago
Karma Cottontail says:
David, you’ve completely misunderstood the point.

You said: >>And I am NOT responsible for what the ISSTD does or doesn’t do, and just because you say I am […] So suggesting that I am responsible for what therapists do or don’t do […]<< I've said no such thing. It's THEY who are showing an outrageous lack of judgement, openly associating with and enabling people who are clearly unstable and delusional. It's tragic, but predictable, that that lack of judgement enabled a deeply disturbed woman -- who otherwise would never have had custody -- to murder her 8 year old son. I hope this helps to clarify where I'm coming from, David. 1 new post since your last visit Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 20, 2015 11:16:22 AM PDT LoessJedi says:
But yesterday you claimed that they were my colleagues, that I was “hand in hand” with them. So again, everything keeps changing with you. And just as this post shows, you are full of criticisms but do not offer any suggestions on how they should do things differently.

Since you lack any others, you just use any venue you can to trash talk everyone you can think of. You have all kinds of opinions on what everyone is doing, and how they are doing it wrong, but never once, in all the years that you have been on here- have you ever suggested how you think it is appropriate to deal with these issues. you blame, you trash, and everything is an argument with you- and yet you never offer any ideas as to how therapy should be, in your opinion, appropriately handled.

In reply to your post on Mar 20, 2015 11:23:04 AM PDT
Karma Cottontail says:
David Shurter: >>But yesterday you claimed that they were my colleagues, that I was “hand in hand” with them. So again, everything keeps changing with you.<< No, nothing has changed, and your reading comprehension remains woefully inadequate. Maybe Pat can help explain it to you. Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 20, 2015 11:25:45 AM PDT LoessJedi says:
lol- yet another argument and another criticism. What a surprise. If I said the sky was above and the ground was below- you would find a way to prove that I was wrong, all the while suggesting that I was an idiot for saying something so false. Everything is an argument with you.

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 20, 2015 11:41:59 AM PDT
LoessJedi says:
In reply to your post on Mar 19, 2015 11:30:25 PM PDT
Last edited by the author 7 minutes ago
“Karma Cottontail says:
>>You claim you made this second discussion group in order to talk about me, and yet you can’t help yourself by bringing the ISSTD into it, although I am not part of that group<< Yes, you are, even if you aren't a member. You rub shoulders with people like Brick, Byington, other licensed mental health clinicians who are doing you, themselves, and their clients a huge disservice by promoting dangerous SRA conspiracy theories. This time, that conspiracy theory got a kid murdered. And the very people who should have recognized the mother's instability and gotten that child to safety not only missed that, but they actually encouraged her SRA delusion. They found this murdering mother to be rational and credible. What you and your incompetent colleagues promote isn't simply embarrassing, it's a public health hazard." So which is it? Am I connected or not? Because you have stated both. In reply to your post on Mar 20, 2015 11:51:34 AM PDT Karma Cottontail says:
>>So which is it? Am I connected or not? Because you have stated both.<< No, David, I haven't "stated both", and your reading comprehension is as poor as ever. I'll copy and paste from my earlier comment. Please read carefully, and have Pat explain it to you if you're still confused: "I can't get over how much contact he seems to have with people in the mental health field, and how incredibly incompetent they must be to "work" with him (as a colleague) and participate in an event that he has any role in." Nowhere have I said that you are "responsible" for what they do. I said that they accept you as a colleague and an equal participant in your events and conventions, and this shows just how embarrassingly POOR their judgement is. And of course, this is precisely the same crowd who finds SRA stories credible -- a delusion which resulted in the murder of a child by his own deeply disturbed mother. See, David, they didn't recognize HER deficits either, although the courts did. (Sound familiar?) 1 new post since your last visit Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 20, 2015 11:54:16 AM PDT LoessJedi says:
you say I am connected and responsible for what they do- then you claim I am not. And I copied and pasted your comment verbatim. So I either am connected and responsible for their behavior, or I am not. Which one is it?

In reply to your post on Mar 20, 2015 11:56:13 AM PDT
Karma Cottontail says:
>>you say I am connected and responsible for what they do- then you claim I am not. And I copied and pasted your comment verbatim. << Again, David, re-read it. Nowhere do I say you are "responsible" for them. I'm saying THEY embarrass themselves by associating with the likes of *you*. I don't know how to make that any clearer, David. Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 20, 2015 12:02:53 PM PDT LoessJedi says:
So since two people supposedly found a woman credible, they are responsible for the murder of a child? Were any charges pressed? And what exactly do i have to do with this situation? You are saying that my book convinces people to murder their children? That because two therapists who are connected to the ISSTD made a bad judgement- that that means the entire group of ISSTD therapists are responsible? And since I have spoken at Bricks conference, and at Survivorship- which Brick runs, although he is not an ISSTD member- it makes me responsible as well? That the three talks I have given have convinced people to kill their children? I don’t need Pat to explain this too me- I am asking YOU. Save your insults and derisive comments and just help me understand why I, although I am not a member of the ISSTD- am responsible for what two therapists did or didn’t do. And since the ISSTD was not involved with either the SMART conference nor the Survivorship conference- how is it that you can claim that they see me as a colleague and and equal participant? I mean, the ISSTD has never asked me to talk. Nor have I ever spoke at any event they were a part of.

Posted on Mar 20, 2015 12:17:40 PM PDT
Karma Cottontail says:
David Shurter says: >>And what exactly do i have to do with this situation? […] it makes me responsible as well?<< Is this playacting on your part? If you are, truly, so utterly incapable of grasping what's been said, there's really nothing more I can do here, David. 1 new post since your last visit Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 20, 2015 12:21:04 PM PDT LoessJedi says:
okay- then answer this question…

And since the ISSTD was not involved with either the SMART conference nor the Survivorship conference- how is it that you can claim that they see me as a colleague and and equal participant? I mean, the ISSTD has never asked me to talk. Nor have I ever spoke at any event they were a part of.

So why do you see us working in conjunction with each other? I mean- if the answer is so apparent, you should have no problem answering it.

If I have never spoken at an ISSTD function, nor one they supported, how is it you can claim that they see me as a colleague and equal participant? How did you derive at this conclusion?

In reply to your post on Mar 20, 2015 2:40:14 PM PDT
Last edited by the author 58 minutes ago
Karma Cottontail says:
>>And since the ISSTD was not involved with either the SMART conference nor the Survivorship conference-<< This is tiresome, since you demonstrate over and over that you're not even comprehending what's being said, but let me at least dispel this bit of ignorance on your part. They are different organizations, but they all support and promote each others' events. For instance, this ad went out from the ISSTD this year: __________ Dear ISSTD Members and friends, An Infinite Mind is proud to announce our fifth annual Healing Together Conference; an educational and support conference on DID. _________ Neil Brick has presented at this conference, did you know that? And Survivorship also advertises it each year. ISSTD board members/presenters/organizers also present at Survivorship: https://survivorship.org/survivorship-ritual-abuse-and-child-abuse-2013-conference/ As you (hopefully) know, ISSTD board members/presenters/organizers are presenting at IG. These organizations and the members absolutely support and endorse each other. And when one of these organizations works closely with, and lends credibility to a clearly deranged individual whose senseless story -- and indeed, whose word on anything -- can't possibly be taken at face value, it reflects poorly on ALL of them, and they ALL should feel the sting of shame. Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 20, 2015 3:36:20 PM PDT You edited this post LoessJedi says:
that is a HUGE stretch. I do know that the ISSTD has helped An Infinite Mind- but NEVER ONCE have they helped Brick or Survivorship- the only two I have spoken at.

This is a manipulation and a joke. And I am NOT presenting for IG- which you have stated repeatedly.

But, since it is true for me that i need to prove when I make a claim- this time it is YOU who has to prove what you say.

Prove that the ISSTD stood up and supported Brick AT THE CONFERENCES I SPOKE AT. This all or nothing idea that you have that every one of these groups supports each other and thus the ISSTD looks at me as a colleague and an equal is ridiculous- and you can’t prove that the ISSTD supports Brick- esp. at the conferences that I spoke at.

And since this last post shows that LOOSELY that all these groups are connected, how is this not true for your little group in here? You all stand up for each other- and defend each other- so why is everyone else a group (although this is laughable) but you guys aren’t?

and yes- it DOES get tiresome. But you started this conversation, and so you really only have yourself to blame.

Your claim is that the ISSTD looks at me as a colleague and an equal- but you haven’t proven this to be true. By trying to connect that the ISSTD supported AN INFINITE MIND (where I have never spoken), and Brick has TALKED at AN INFINITE MIND- this DOES NOT SHOW that the ISSTD considers me a colleague and an equal.

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 20, 2015 3:51:25 PM PDT
You edited this post
LoessJedi says:
I think you are just mad cause no one has asked you to speak anywhere. Obviously since that is the case, no one but you thinks that you have all the answers. Judging by the logic you just shared- one doesn’t have to wonder why.

Posted on Mar 20, 2015 4:19:44 PM PDT
CritThink says:
Oh, goodness, David forgets again! Ellie Fields is an a proud ISSTD groupie. She advertises that fact all over the place. Ellie spoke at the conference.

David says:
Ellie and I are colleagues. Nothing more.

1 new post since your last visit
Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 20, 2015 4:27:28 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
actually- since I am not a therapist- it would be wrong to say we are colleagues.

Colleague
noun
1.
a fellow worker or member of a staff, department, profession, etc

Since I am not a therapist- nor do I work for any therapist, it is better said that we are friends. And I don’t see where she speaks for the ISSTD. Nor does that prove that the ISSTD views me as a colleague or an equal. Again- saying such is nothing but a manipulation and a lie.

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 20, 2015 4:30:32 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
However, since she runs an art group, and some consider me an artist- I guess that the term could be loosely used. However- this STILL doesn’t prove that the ISSTD views me as a colleague nor an equal.

In reply to your post on Mar 20, 2015 4:34:00 PM PDT
CritThink says:
David you said it! I have the post. You said you were her colleague. So, like I ask Pat, were you lying then or now?

1 new post since your last visit
Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 20, 2015 4:37:17 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
again- I do artwork and she runs an organization that works with artwork. So it isn’t a lie. I mean- Ellie is a wife, a mother, and an incredible part of the Omaha art world, besides being a therapist. So it isn’t a lie. Unlike you- she isn’t just one thing.

And just because her organization shows my art work, it doesn’t prove that the ISSTD considers me a colleague and as an equal.

In reply to your post on Mar 20, 2015 5:17:05 PM PDT
Last edited by the author 2 minutes ago
CritThink says:
Artists don’t call each other colleagues…fellow artist.

1 new post since your last visit
Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 20, 2015 5:20:12 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
I do. And I am an artist. Sorry I didn’t ask for your permission. Didn’t, AND DON’T, feel I need it. I have lots of colleagues in the art world. But don’t worry- I will NEVER consider you one. lol

In reply to your post on Mar 20, 2015 5:25:12 PM PDT
Karma Cottontail says:
>>this STILL doesn’t prove that the ISSTD views me as a colleague nor an equal.<< You think I should cut the ISSTD some slack then? That they ARE sensible enough to distance themselves from someone so deluded and hysterical as David Shurter? 1 new post since your last visit Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 20, 2015 5:34:35 PM PDT LoessJedi says:
lol- how ever way you wanna spin it dude. I mean, that pretty much goes without saying.

But it is nice to see that you admit you were wrong.

I do believe this is the first time. Guess miracles CAN happen.

In reply to your post on Mar 20, 2015 5:40:47 PM PDT
Last edited by the author 5 minutes ago
Gordon_bydand says:
I never said I had “all the answers”. That’s one of your pet phrases you trot out whenever you’re getting trounced (aka, always). Given your limited and somewhat juvenile vocabulary, I am once again bemused by you choosing to write books and a blog. Most people in your position would AVOID literary endeavors.

1 new post since your last visit
Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 20, 2015 5:55:41 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
lol- you threw a temper tantrum just last night and because the three of you are in here ganging up on me- you consider me getting trounced lol. That is solely your opinion. Just because you sling insults because your arguments generally fail doesn’t mean anything other than you are all a collection of bullies. Who throw temper tantrums at the mere thought of having who you really are exposed. lol.

In reply to your post on Mar 20, 2015 6:33:01 PM PDT
Gordon_bydand says:
Another of your posts that is completely divorced from reality. Are you in therapy? REAL therapy? Because you certainly should be.

In reply to your post on Mar 20, 2015 6:33:52 PM PDT
Karma Cottontail says:
>>you threw a temper tantrum just last night<< What are you talking about, David? Are you confused again? Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 20, 2015 6:36:02 PM PDT LoessJedi says:
lol- another example of using insults because your arguments don’t work. thanks for that stellar example of what I have been talking about.

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 20, 2015 6:38:15 PM PDT
Last edited by you 43 seconds ago
LoessJedi says:
you threatened to make me rot in jail, said you were going to involve the FBI, all because you were throwing a fit because you hold your privacy at such a high value. I am not confused- you aren’t that hard to figure out. Just because now you want to change what happened doesn’t mean that you didn’t threaten to make me rot in jail and claim you were going to call the FBI to save you.

I am sure you will just give your usual insult in order to distract from this- but it doesn’t change the fact that you threw a fit last night.

Wait- I thought I was talking to Gordon. you Karma have spent all day arguing that I was considered a colleague of the ISSTD until you finally admitted you were wrong. Sorry about that- what with this whole tag team bullying it is sometimes hard to realize who I am answering.

In reply to your post on Mar 20, 2015 6:38:47 PM PDT
Gordon_bydand says:
No, that was not insulting.

In reply to your post on Mar 20, 2015 6:40:52 PM PDT
Last edited by the author 23 seconds ago
Gordon_bydand says:
First of all, I believe you are referring to me, not Karma. Second, I did not “throw a fit”; I responded appropriately to your attempts to bully me with your threats of illegal actions (and I meant every word of it, in case you were wondering). Third, I still haven’t “insulted” you.

1 new post since your last visit
Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 20, 2015 6:42:20 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
whatever. I kept the whole conversation so people can judge for themselves. And like I said- do what you feel you need to do and ill do the same.

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 20, 2015 6:46:34 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
Im busy listening to a live interview with Nick Bryant. Funny- you don’t seem to wanna attack him for his book on the Franklin Credit Union. Interesting.

In reply to your post on Mar 20, 2015 6:48:00 PM PDT
Gordon_bydand says:
Probably because I’ve never heard of him (nor do I “attack” people). Did he spend 3 years trolling a book he never read?

1 new post since your last visit
Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 20, 2015 6:50:05 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
Your ignorance is noted. And we aren’t talking about 22 Faces now are we?

I have had several people ask what you want from me. I couldn’t answer. Maybe you can answer the question what you want from me? Cause other than obviously being ignorant of what happened in OMaha and the people who have written books about- it seems you are just in here attacking me because I was talking on 22 Faces.

In reply to your post on Mar 20, 2015 6:52:15 PM PDT
Gordon_bydand says:
You can’t answer? I’ve told you. I told you yesterday. I want you to stop lying.

1 new post since your last visit
Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 20, 2015 6:55:02 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
Funny- Nick Bryant- the guy you are ignorant of who is the one who wrote Franklin Scandal, is speaking about the same things I have.

Why do you feel the need to assert control over me? I think you are lying to yourself.

As well as to everyone else.

In reply to your post on Mar 20, 2015 7:11:46 PM PDT
Gordon_bydand says:
I don’t feel any such thing. Despite what your ego would have you believe, you, David Shurter (if that is your real name), don’t matter much. Truth matters.

1 new post since your last visit
Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 20, 2015 7:13:21 PM PDT
LoessJedi says:
and yet you spend so much time in here with me in mind. You say I don’t matter much- but you have spent countless hours engaging me- trying to make me do what you want.

That doesn’t seem to make any sense. Not really.

Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Mar 21, 2015 8:24:39 AM PDT
LoessJedi says:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iso6hcoY1DA&feature=share

Opperman Report : Nick Bryant , Confessions of A DC Madam, Franklin Scandal